Tigers aren't getting Choo, okay already?

[pr0tege]

Wait...Iggy is slower than Don Kelly, Andy Dirks, and the old-as-dirt-Torii Hunter?

and only marginally faster than Cabrera?

Iggy doesn't have great speed. He DOES however get outta the batter's box very quick which was how he was able to beat out so many infield hits last season.

 

[UMRules06]

It's still an eye test because his stopwatch is not official. Unless it's timed in realtime, than the accuracy is questionable. In fact, the TV broadcast and subsequent youtube replay is not likely to be in realtime either.

So my point is he can use whatever method he likes, it still falls under his human error of what his eye see's on a non official replay, plus the eye-hand coordination of being able to accurately start and stop a stopwatch at the correct times.

Ok I won't argue with any of that, in fact I agree that his timing is not nearly accurate enough to draw any conclusions. It's also a one time experiment that would have to be duplicated many times over. Maybe there was a strong gust of wind or something like that giving the player an extra bit of speed on that play.

I just disagreed with the use of the word "eye test" is all. It's really nothing worth discussing, so I'll just drop it. As I said I don't have a dog in this fight anyway lol.

 

[Thumb]

Iggy doesn't have great speed. He DOES however get outta the batter's box very quick which was how he was able to beat out so many infield hits last season.

Meh, sorry I don't buy it.

Unless the measurement tool they use is like 100 meter dash or something, where the long legged guys like Kelly and Dirks have an advantage over a short guy like Iggy.

 

[UMRules06]

I feel that Avila needs a PLATOON partner, not a cheap scrub backup in Holaday. Signing the FA Napoli might be their best bet, b/c he would provide the Tigers with more IF flexibility, for example in the event that Castellanos proves himself not ready for prime/full time @ 3B, The Tigers could slide Miggy back to 3B, in a platoon while platooning Napoli @ C and @ 1B with VMart. He could also serve as DH on occasion, as could Nick when Miggy plays 3B.

I thought Napoli couldn't really play catcher anymore at this point? Didn't he have some sort of injury that prevents him from doing so? I'm not sure honestly.

 

[pr0tege]

Meh, sorry I don't buy it.

Unless the measurement tool they use is like 100 meter dash or something, where the long legged guys like Kelly and Dirks have an advantage over a short guy like Iggy.

Well like Grandy posted the graph page it's a sorta outdated stat BUT it's really the only viable stat on speed rating available at this point.

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/offense/spd/

 

[pr0tege]

I feel that Avila needs a PLATOON partner, not a cheap scrub backup in Holaday. Signing the FA Napoli might be their best bet, b/c he would provide the Tigers with more IF flexibility, for example in the event that Castellanos proves himself not ready for prime/full time @ 3B, The Tigers could slide Miggy back to 3B, in a platoon while platooning Napoli @ C and @ 1B with VMart. He could also serve as DH on occasion, as could Nick when Miggy plays 3B.

With Napoli's degenerating hip condition he is not available to catch anymore. There is a reason he didn't catch at all last season and moved to 1st base.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Is that pure speed or getting from one base to the next or going from 1st to third? The numbers just don't seem to add up in my head. 3.1 Iggy, 2.8 Cabrera?

 

[Thumb]

Well like Grandy posted the graph page it's a sorta outdated stat BUT it's really the only viable stat on speed rating available at this point.

http://www.fangraphs.com/library/offense/spd/

Right that's the part I don't buy. Now I obviously have no tool myself to measure speed, but when Miguel Cabrera is ranked 2.8 and Iggy is only 3.1 for a difference of 0.4 and then Hunter is ranked at 4.4, a full 1.3 over Iggy, which suggests that Iggy runs more like Cabrera than Hunter I have my doubts about the validity of that scale/ranking system.

 

[Mitchrapp]

consists of, “…Stolen Base Percentage, Frequency of Stolen Base Attempts, Percentage of Triples, and Runs Scored Percentage.”

Ah. Now that I read that I can see how messed up that was.

 

[grandy]

Is that pure speed or getting from one base to the next or going from 1st to third? The numbers just don't seem to add up in my head. 3.1 Iggy, 2.8 Cabrera?

Speed score (Spd) is a statistic developed by Bill James that rates a player on their speed and baserunning ability. Different locations include slightly different components, but the FanGraphs version consists of, ??Stolen Base Percentage, Frequency of Stolen Base Attempts, Percentage of Triples, and Runs Scored Percentage.?

Based on that, it sounds like a player with average speed who's a smart, efficient base runner will likely have a higher speed rating than a player with above average speed who's inefficient on the base paths.

 

[Thumb]

Speed score (Spd) is a statistic developed by Bill James that rates a player on their speed and baserunning ability. Different locations include slightly different components, but the FanGraphs version consists of, ??Stolen Base Percentage, Frequency of Stolen Base Attempts, Percentage of Triples, and Runs Scored Percentage.?

Based on that, it sounds like a player with average speed who's a smart, efficient base runner will likely have a higher speed rating than a player with above average speed who's inefficient on the base paths.

So basically it's not a speed rating at all, more or less it's a baserunning rating.

 

[Rebbiv]

I dropped some speed in college....wait...wrong kind of speed.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Speed score (Spd) is a statistic developed by Bill James that rates a player on their speed and baserunning ability. Different locations include slightly different components, but the FanGraphs version consists of, ??Stolen Base Percentage, Frequency of Stolen Base Attempts, Percentage of Triples, and Runs Scored Percentage.?

Based on that, it sounds like a player with average speed who's a smart, efficient base runner will likely have a higher speed rating than a player with above average speed who's inefficient on the base paths.

I did finally see it but thanks. More about base-running skills I think.

 

[pr0tege]

Well also look at something here. Boston was as we know a team that wasn't afraid to steal bases finishing 4th in baseball in steals YET in 63 games with Boston last season he attempted all of 4. He does not have good speed overall.

 

[Thumb]

Well also look at something here. Boston was as we know a team that wasn't afraid to steal bases finishing 4th in baseball in steals YET in 63 games with Boston last season he attempted all of 4. He does not have good speed overall.

So how many times a guy attempts to steal is now an indicator of speed?

Man, this is snowballing downhill fast.

 

[pr0tege]

No it's an indication of SOME of the basis behind the 3.1 rating he has on FanGraph.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I would be .4 if anyone wanted to know.

 

[Thumb]

No it's an indication of SOME of the basis behind the 3.1 rating he has on FanGraph.

You just used it as your basis for saying "he does not have good speed overall".

I would hope one would understand that stolen base attempts and their frequency are often controlled by other factors. A man might be occupying second, there could be 2 outs, the pitcher might be left handed, lots of factors which might decrease the overall attempts made might have nothing to do with how fast a guy actually is.

 

[Rebbiv]

Career Speed (per Fangraphs)

Ellsbury 7.5
M. Trout 7.5
A. Jackson 7.2
Granderson 7.0
Andrus 6.7
K. Gibson 6.4
Kipnis 6.1

Choo 5.2
Kelly 5.1
Dirks 5.1
Infante 5.0
A. Trammell 5.0
Hunter 4.9

Iglesias 4.6
Santiago 4.6
L. Whitaker 4.6
Headley 4.3

Lombardozzi 4.0

Cabrera 2.9
Avila 2.9
Peralta 2.7
Holoday 2.6
Fielder 2.4
Tuiasosopo 2.1
B. Pena 1.7
V. Martinez 1.5

 

[grandy]

Quintin Berry 9.0