Tigers aren't getting Choo, okay already?

[pr0tege]

How do you know these things?

It's an online forum here so really anything I say won't matter so lol. There is a few here that knows what I do but I do work in the baseball industry at least.

 

[Thumb]

How do you know these things?

Agreed. Plenty of people used to claim intimate knowledge back on ESPN saying they were scouts, etc. without ever backing up any claim.

If you know for a fact, why not cite your source? I'm not saying I'm doubting you, but it's easy for someone to claim something.

 

[Rebbiv]

so what you are saying is pitchers that are 21 can't change their mechanics and become better pitchers?

Refine yes, out and out change? Depends on what type of results you are willing to have. Reduced velocity for one.

Most every pitcher can throw his fastball for strikes. Breaking balls and off speed are probably what is causing the high walks. Or they, the pitchers, are just plain wild. But regardless, pitchers are either from the "WINDUP" or from the "SET". Each present different issues and the mechanics aren't the exact same. So is he having issues from the Windup, or is he having issues from the stretch? Is it against lefthanded hitters or with righthanded hitters? What side of the rubber does he toe?

For instance, sometimes it is just as simple as moving over on the rubber. I am not saying he cannot improve these things. I am saying that at his current rate, the walk rate does suggest future success.

 

[spockmaster]

If you do have a source, is there any feeling as to whether or not he'll accept? Or is he mulling over several offers?

 

[pr0tege]

Agreed. Plenty of people used to claim intimate knowledge back on ESPN saying they were scouts, etc. without ever backing up any claim.

If you know for a fact, why not cite your source? I'm not saying I'm doubting you, but it's easy for someone to claim something.

In terms of this particular deal that I know for a fact is on the table when I was drafted I was represented by Boras Corporation and was for the 6 years I played. I remained friends not with Scott Boras personally but several of the agents/scouts that works there.

 

[pr0tege]

If you do have a source, is there any feeling as to whether or not he'll accept? Or is he mulling over several offers?

Like I had mentioned last night the WORSE possible thing that could have happened happened last night when Ellsbury signed with the Yankees. If it was ANY other team it would have been OK but with him signing with NY Boston as I expected are the front runner now for Choo as they can trump really any deal the Tigers have and have a lot more payroll flexibility than the Tigers do at the moment.

 

[firehim]

I have a feeling that with the exception of possivly acquiring some additional BP pieces, like maybe signing Benoit for setup and occasionally closer roles, the rest of the holes in LF. (Dirks) 3B, (Castellanos) and bench will be filled internally. Might be a bench comprised of Kelly, Lombardozzi, Perez, and Holaday.

Obviously if so, the Tigers offense will be noticeably if not significantly weaker overall than last season's team, absent "career" seasons by a few starters. Of course the team also has several players who could very well regress if not tank completely..

I am fine with that. Our team should be good enough "as is" to get to the playoffs. It would be better to make a deadline deal for a player that fits our post season needs, than to overpay for a guy like Choo. He is not worth the qualifying offer. We can use that pick to get someone midseason?

 

[Thumb]

I have a feeling that with the exception of possivly acquiring some additional BP pieces, like maybe signing Benoit for setup and occasionally closer roles, the rest of the holes in LF. (Dirks) 3B, (Castellanos) and bench will be filled internally. Might be a bench comprised of Kelly, Lombardozzi, Perez, and Holaday.

Obviously if so, the Tigers offense will be noticeably if not significantly weaker overall than last season's team, absent "career" seasons by a few starters. Of course the team also has several players who could very well regress if not tank completely..

I'm guessing, and hoping it would be worth rather than Perez. I'd much rather a young guy like Perez play every day and improve, where as it seems like Danny Worth is what he is at this point, and he might as well ride the bench over Perez.

Just my 2 cents.

 

[tomdalton22]

Refine yes, out and out change? Depends on what type of results you are willing to have. Reduced velocity for one.

Most every pitcher can throw his fastball for strikes. Breaking balls and off speed are probably what is causing the high walks. Or they, the pitchers, are just plain wild. But regardless, pitchers are either from the "WINDUP" or from the "SET". Each present different issues and the mechanics aren't the exact same. So is he having issues from the Windup, or is he having issues from the stretch? Is it against lefthanded hitters or with righthanded hitters? What side of the rubber does he toe?

For instance, sometimes it is just as simple as moving over on the rubber. I am not saying he cannot improve these things. I am saying that at his current rate, the walk rate does suggest future success.

I sorted the top 10 LH pitchers in MLB last year just using ERA. Here are the ML walk rates


1 Clayton Kershaw 2.8
2 Madison Bumgarner 1.9
3 Cliff Lee 4.2
4 Hyun-Jin Ryu 2.6 (Japan)
5 Chris Sale - 5.2
6 Travis Wood - 3.4
7 Mike Minor - 2.8
8 David Price - 3.2
9 Gio Gonzalez - 4.1
10 CJ Wilson 3.0

Based on these 10 I would say that having a 4 walk rate in the Minors doesn't say you are not going to make it to the ML level. 60% of them have a walk rate over 3 and 30% have one over 4.

 

[spockmaster]

If granderson signs with the mets and Choo doesnt sign with us (possibly with boston), i dunno what the fuck we're going to do for LF.

 

[grandy]

If granderson signs with the mets and Choo doesnt sign with us (possibly with boston), i dunno what the fuck we're going to do for LF.

Not that I trust anything that DD says, but it sounds like they're OK with Dirks starting in LF next year.

*cringes*

 

[Rebbiv]

I sorted the top 10 LH pitchers in MLB last year just using ERA. Here are the ML walk rates


1 Clayton Kershaw 2.8
2 Madison Bumgarner 1.9
3 Cliff Lee 4.2
4 Hyun-Jin Ryu 2.6 (Japan)
5 Chris Sale - 5.2
6 Travis Wood - 3.4
7 Mike Minor - 2.8
8 David Price - 3.2
9 Gio Gonzalez - 4.1
10 CJ Wilson 3.0

Based on these 10 I would say that having a 4 walk rate in the Minors doesn't say you are not going to make it to the ML level. 60% of them have a walk rate over 3 and 30% have one over 4.

Geez Tom...what about the pitchers that didn't make it? Are you not counting them for a reason?

Go back to 1990-2000 and look at all the starters 25 and under in the minors. Now look at their walk rates. Add up those that made it 5 years or more in the Majors and you will find roughly 5%.

 

[Rebbiv]

If granderson signs with the mets and Choo doesnt sign with us (possibly with boston), i dunno what the fuck we're going to do for LF.

I hear Lombardozzi can play LF :tup:

 

[spockmaster]

I hear Lombardozzi can play LF :tup:

*cries*

 

[Rebbiv]

I am fine with that. Our team should be good enough "as is" to get to the playoffs. It would be better to make a deadline deal for a player that fits our post season needs, than to overpay for a guy like Choo. He is not worth the qualifying offer. We can use that pick to get someone midseason?

Gone
Fielder
Peralta
Infante
Pena
Santiago
Tuiasosopo
Fister
Veras
Benoit
Dotel
Valverde

Gained
Kinsler
Lombardozzi
Nathan
Krol

Am I missing something?

 

[Thumb]

I am fine with that. Our team should be good enough "as is" to get to the playoffs. It would be better to make a deadline deal for a player that fits our post season needs, than to overpay for a guy like Choo. He is not worth the qualifying offer. We can use that pick to get someone midseason?

Really? after winning the division by 1 fucking game last year you think this roster is good enough to make the playoffs?

Weakened lineup, weakened starting rotation, weakened bullpen, weakened bench, rookie coaching staff.

Yep, pencil us in as locks to make the ALCS.

 

[spockmaster]

Im really pissed off about how the offseason is going. DD seems to be wanting to purposely get worse to shed money when we've been so close to a WS win.

 

[firehim]

Really? after winning the division by 1 fucking game last year you think this roster is good enough to make the playoffs?

Weakened lineup, weakened starting rotation, weakened bullpen, weakened bench, rookie coaching staff.

Yep, pencil us in as locks to make the ALCS.

Yes I do. Do you think that Cleveland or KC have a better roster?

 

[tomdalton22]

Geez Tom...what about the pitchers that didn't make it? Are you not counting them for a reason?

Go back to 1990-2000 and look at all the starters 25 and under in the minors. Now look at their walk rates. Add up those that made it 5 years or more in the Majors and you will find roughly 5%.

no...what I am saying is just because you have that walk rate at the age of 21 does NOT mean you CAN'T be successful. You basically said he can't be an MLB starter BECAUSE of his walk rate.

 

[Thumb]

no...what I am saying is just because you have that walk rate at the age of 21 does NOT mean you CAN'T be successful. You basically said he can't be an MLB starter BECAUSE of his walk rate.

No he didn't, once again you are misquoting someone. What he said was:

There is almost no way Ray becomes a #3 or #4 with those high walk rates, mostly to righthanded hitters. Hence why he projects to be a LOOGY.

Notice he never said "can't" and never said "an MLB starter".