Verlander says no contract talk during the season

[Mitchrapp]

my view on this is very different in baseball than it is for football. Heck with the lions im already thinking about when we can move Suh. In baseball with no cap....I have a different mindset and it goes like this.....spend a shit ton of money and win championships. Its not my money....I don't care. Verlander isn't ever going to just lose it...not anytime soon. Pay him...a lot.

I don't care either. But what if we can't sign him? What if 2014 trade deadline comes and he wants to test free agency, what do you do...?

 

[mhughes0021]

Uhh..yeah, there is no "hard" payroll cap in MLB....however there is that pesky Luxury Tax penalty that has forced one of the most notoriously free-spending franchises in the major leagues, being the NY Yankees, to clench their collective buttholes beginning this year. Although it hasn't (as yet) caused the now cash-flush LA Dodgers' new ownership to blink an eye.

luxury tax isn't killing the Yankees...horrible contracts to people that are underproducing are. If verlander continues to produce then he deserves whatever money he gets. You don't win anything without pitching and we have the best pitcher in baseball....pay the man and keep it that way.

 

[mhughes0021]

Naive thinking.

It's not your money, but the guy who spends it runs a business, and at some point there is a limit on what can be spent, Mr. I (or whoever comes after) is not going to take a loss.

People who keep saying MLB has no cap so owners can spend at will really have no financial sense at all. Aside from playing players, and coaches, and staff, the organization still has to pay for other costs, all those airline tickets and hotel rooms, the grounds crews, security, electricity, etc.

Money comes in from the games, and TV contracts, and advertising, but this is not New York or LA, whether people choose to believe it or not, there is a hard cap, and it's probably significantly less then the operating expenses of the ballclub, after all, the owners are in business to make money.

The man built a stadium in the middle of a shithole...don't preach to me about making sound business decisions. Verlander deserves to be the highest paid pitcher in baseball. Anyone that says any different has "no financial sense at all."

 

[Mitchrapp]

luxury tax isn't killing the Yankees...horrible contracts to people that are underproducing are. If verlander continues to produce then he deserves whatever money he gets. You don't win anything without pitching and we have the best pitcher in baseball....pay the man and keep it that way.

But if you sign him to a contract until he's 40, after he stops performing after 35 - isn't that wasted money?

 

[Rebbiv]

The man built a stadium in the middle of a shithole...don't preach to me about making sound business decisions. Verlander deserves to be the highest paid pitcher in baseball. Anyone that says any different has "no financial sense at all."

OK...whatever.


How does Verlander "deserve" to be the highest paid?


A team wins by scoring runs and limiting the opposition from scoring runs. Over the last 10 years, 67% of all AL wins come when a team scores 5 runs or more.

2011-2012 Team Winning % (.565) in games started

Verlander .687

Scherzer .647

Porcello .597

Fister .583

Smyly .500

Sanchez .417

Everyone Else .359 (64 GS)

Whether it is the top 5/6 starters listed here or the "everyone else", the 67% of wins come when DET scores 5 runs or more. How ironic that number is the same.


On an average year, Verlander will generate 2-3 team wins more than any other of DET's top 5 starters. Are those 2 more wins worth $20 Mil more in salary? Not to me. There is no value in it.

 

[byco42]

Whatever you say, bud. I was only voicing my opinion...chill out.

Wasn't all that agitated in the first place.

 

[mhughes0021]

OK...whatever.


How does Verlander "deserve" to be the highest paid?


A team wins by scoring runs and limiting the opposition from scoring runs. Over the last 10 years, 67% of all AL wins come when a team scores 5 runs or more.

2011-2012 Team Winning % (.565) in games started

Verlander .687

Scherzer .647

Porcello .597

Fister .583

Smyly .500

Sanchez .417

Everyone Else .359 (64 GS)

Whether it is the top 5/6 starters listed here or the "everyone else", the 67% of wins come when DET scores 5 runs or more. How ironic that number is the same.


On an average year, Verlander will generate 2-3 team wins more than any other of DET's top 5 starters. Are those 2 more wins worth $20 Mil more in salary? Not to me. There is no value in it.

that's bending stats in your favor. I could say most other pitchers on staff have over a 4. ERA and JV has been having 2. ERA. So to your point teams win by scoring runs and JV limits those runs better than 95% of the pitchers in baseball. Throw in his strikeout ratio and bam...you have the highest paid pitcher in baseball.

 

[tomdalton22]

The man built a stadium in the middle of a shithole...don't preach to me about making sound business decisions. Verlander deserves to be the highest paid pitcher in baseball. Anyone that says any different has "no financial sense at all."

right now he does desreve to be the highest paid pitcher in baseball....but in the last 6 years of a contract will he deserve it? I think there is too much risk for the Tigers to sign him to a huge contract after this season.

 

[Rebbiv]

that's bending stats in your favor. I could say most other pitchers on staff have over a 4. ERA and JV has been having 2. ERA. So to your point teams win by scoring runs and JV limits those runs better than 95% of the pitchers in baseball. Throw in his strikeout ratio and bam...you have the highest paid pitcher in baseball.

Exactly what did I bend?

I posted a statistical fact. Run support is everything for a starting pitcher.

 

[kalinecountry]

Some of the later years for fear of paying lots of $$$$$salary to mid to later 30's players...
some of that is neutralized by tickets, player merchandise, and the new tv revenue of which Tigers iirc were to get $40 Million.

 

[turok]

Some of the later years for fear of paying lots of $$$$$salary to mid to later 30's players...
some of that is neutralized by tickets, player merchandise, and the new tv revenue of which Tigers iirc were to get $40 Million.

As well as the fact that the players' salaries continue to escalate with only the "Luxury Tax" preventing big-market and to a lesser degree, mid-market franchises from continuing to bid up the cost of acquiring players and signing/extending them to long, if not overlong and ever more expensive contracts. So what may at first appear to be an overpay with an overlong contract to elite or near-elite players, some/many who become "past-prime" during or near the end of their contracts, then becomes much cheaper 4 or 5 years hence.

 

[mhughes0021]

Exactly what did I bend?

I posted a statistical fact. Run support is everything for a starting pitcher.

and I countered you with saying limiting runs is more important. trading verlander for a bunch of prospects does not mean we get more run support for our shitty pitching staff thats left over after hes gone. None of the arguments you are presenting make us any better once verlander is gone. So what if run support is a pitchers best friend?..what the hell does that have to do with verlander?

 

[Rebbiv]

and I countered you with saying limiting runs is more important. trading verlander for a bunch of prospects does not mean we get more run support for our shitty pitching staff thats left over after hes gone. None of the arguments you are presenting make us any better once verlander is gone. So what if run support is a pitchers best friend?..what the hell does that have to do with verlander?

You made an unsubstantiated statement. Not a fact. What statistical evidence do you have that backs up your claim?

 

[tomdalton22]

OK...whatever.


How does Verlander "deserve" to be the highest paid?


A team wins by scoring runs and limiting the opposition from scoring runs. Over the last 10 years, 67% of all AL wins come when a team scores 5 runs or more.

2011-2012 Team Winning % (.565) in games started

Verlander .687

Scherzer .647

Porcello .597

Fister .583

Smyly .500

Sanchez .417

Everyone Else .359 (64 GS)

Whether it is the top 5/6 starters listed here or the "everyone else", the 67% of wins come when DET scores 5 runs or more. How ironic that number is the same.


On an average year, Verlander will generate 2-3 team wins more than any other of DET's top 5 starters. Are those 2 more wins worth $20 Mil more in salary? Not to me. There is no value in it.

I guess he would deserve to be the highest paid pitcher if he is the best pitcher in the game.

 

[Rebbiv]

I guess he would deserve to be the highest paid pitcher if he is the best pitcher in the game.

Maybe it is semantics.

Does he merit being the highest paid pitcher?

Does he warrant being the highest paid pitcher?

Does he justify being the highest paid pitcher?

Does he deserve being the highest paid pitcher?


I don't like the word "deserve".

 

[Thumb]

I guess he would deserve to be the highest paid pitcher if he is the best pitcher in the game.

Right now he's the best in the game, but will be be in 5 years? That's what you have to consider, if he wants to extend now, that's one thing, if he wants to play out his remaining 2 years, that's another.

 

[manchild98]

Offer him 7 years 210 million right now. If he starts going down hill at the end of the deal, you let the Yankees take him off our hands like they do with every other high priced underperforming player. Heck, you can package JV and Prince both...they'll do it. They always do. They wouldn't be able to say no. Done.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Offer him 7 years 210 million right now. If he starts going down hill at the end of the deal, you let the Yankees take him off our hands like they do with every other high priced underperforming player. Heck, you can package JV and Prince both...they'll do it. They always do. They wouldn't be able to say no. Done.

7 for 210m, - 30 a year, dude..No one should get paid 30 a year..

 

[manchild98]

7 for 210m, - 30 a year, dude..No one should get paid 30 a year..

No one should get paid 15 million a year.

 

[kalinecountry]

Verlander declined to comment on talks about contact extension with Tigers.
Said he did not dispute what JonHeyman@CBS previously reported.