Who are your 2013 Hall of Fame Players

[Mitchrapp]

Bottom line is some of these players were great before their ped use but it shouldn't make it okay to get to the Hall. Just like Pete Rose, damage the credibility of the game.

 

[uofmpoweri]

Im saying that there a lot of players took steroids. Sheffield was caught in the Balco investigation just like Bonds. Why didn't Sheffield hit 70? Maybe you never watched Bonds, I dont know, but if the pitch wasn't right down the middle of the plate that season it was called a ball.

He never hit 50 in any other season. If it was the magic pills, then why were they extra magical in that season?

 

[Thumb]

Im saying that there a lot of players took steroids. Sheffield was caught in the Balco investigation just like Bonds. Why didn't Sheffield hit 70? Maybe you never watched Bonds, I dont know, but if the pitch wasn't right down the middle of the plate that season it was called a ball.

He never hit 50 in any other season. If it was the magic pills, then why were they extra magical in that season?

You're making it about hitting homeruns, which is besides the point. Roger Clemens used PED's and how many homeruns did he hit?

 

[uofmpoweri]

You're making it about hitting homeruns, which is besides the point. Roger Clemens used PED's and how many homeruns did he hit?

When did Clemens test positive? NEVER. He belongs in the Hall of Fame if you just use his Boston numbers. He is much more deserving than Jack Morris.

But I guess that Jose Canseco can mention a name in his book and that person is automatically guilty.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Im saying that there a lot of players took steroids. Sheffield was caught in the Balco investigation just like Bonds. Why didn't Sheffield hit 70? Maybe you never watched Bonds, I dont know, but if the pitch wasn't right down the middle of the plate that season it was called a ball.

He never hit 50 in any other season. If it was the magic pills, then why were they extra magical in that season?

One was a better player. If I took shit I bet I couldn't hit one HR. Pitches across the middle, you just don't hit that many HR at his age. It helped and what it does even more, it helps him to play everyday.

 

[mjsb2]

Right. Not some magic pill at all, that's why the whole baseball world was turned on it's ass, because PED's are not a big deal. That's why guys get nearly season-ending suspensions now.

Now did those players have exceptional talent to start with? Yes. Did their exceptional accomplishments come from their talents alone? No.

Speaking of ridiculous comments. :nuts:

Increased offensive numbers had more to do with MLB juicing the ball in the early 90s than any PEDs.

If you sucked and you took PEDs, you were still gonna suck.

If you were great and you took PEDs, you were still great.

 

[tomdalton22]

When did Clemens test positive? NEVER. He belongs in the Hall of Fame if you just use his Boston numbers. He is much more deserving than Jack Morris.

But I guess that Jose Canseco can mention a name in his book and that person is automatically guilty.

Clemens was great.....just like Bonds. I think any reasonable person would say both used PEDs. It is the baseball HOF. MLB dropped the ball on PED use so I think they should all be in. There are already players that are in the HOF that used PEDs....how can you justify not letting others in?

 

[Thumb]

If you sucked and you took PEDs, you were still gonna suck.

If you were great and you took PEDs, you were still great.

Agreed.

Except, it should read if you were great and you took PED's, you became greater.

Guys like Bonds and McGwire were great at hitting homeruns, but they became better and stronger when they bulked up with all that lean muscle.

Even without PED's Bonds probably has a HoF career, but he voided it by cheating.

That is my opinion and the opinion of many others, I understand if it's not yours or everyone's. But let's not sit here and pretend that they had no impact on those players careers or numbers, because if you do, you are only fooling yourself.

 

[Mitchrapp]

It helped them stay great for longer periods. And what about the guy who got caught last year, Melky Cabrera. I suppose they didn't help him?

 

[tomdalton22]

Agreed.

Except, it should read if you were great and you took PED's, you became greater.

Guys like Bonds and McGwire were great at hitting homeruns, but they became better and stronger when they bulked up with all that lean muscle.

Even without PED's Bonds probably has a HoF career, but he voided it by cheating.

That is my opinion and the opinion of many others, I understand if it's not yours or everyone's. But let's not sit here and pretend that they had no impact on those players careers or numbers, because if you do, you are only fooling yourself.

I respect your opinion on this topic except for one point. Bonds wasn't probably a HoF he was a shoe in. If you look at his stats it is evident that he either started using in 2000 or 2001. Look at his career prior to that. He was a 3 time MVP and had an OPS over 1.000.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Rose was a shoe in too, but he cheated the game, just like these ped users.

 

[tomdalton22]

Rose was a shoe in too, but he cheated the game, just like these ped users.

Pete Rose should be in too.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Nonetheless, if one doesn't get in none of them should.

 

[tomdalton22]

Nonetheless, if one doesn't get in none of them should.

But there are already players in that used PEDs. How can you justify that?

 

[Rebbiv]

Pitchers had to throw the ball right down the middle to bonds or else it was a ball.

Look at David Ortiz. He tested positive in 2009

2003 31
2004 41
2005 47
2006 54
2007 35
2008 23
2009 28
2010 32 34 years old, age isnt a factor

If it was the steroids then why did he have the 2007 drop off? They got rid of the golf ball and got a real baseball back.

David Ortiz never was confirmed to have tested positive for PEDs. If he had, it would have been in 2003.

Totals are meaningless without knowing the number of Plate Appearances/At Bats (Extra Base Hit Percentage)

2003 = 16.42 PA/HR (14.2%)

2004 = 16.32 PA/HR (13.6%)

2005 = 15.17 PA/HR (12.3%)

2006 = 12.70 PA/HR (12.4%)

2007 = 19.06 PA/HR (13.2%)

2008 = 21.35 PA/HR (11.0%)

2009 = 22.39 PA/HR (10.2%)

2010 = 18.94 PA/HR (11.4%)

2011 = 20.86 PA/HR (11.6%)

2012 = 16.65 PA/HR (12.8%)

 

[Mitchrapp]

But there are already players in that used PEDs. How can you justify that?

Like who? And didn't your mom teach you that 2 wrong's don't make a right?

 

[tomdalton22]

Like who? And didn't your mom teach you that 2 wrong's don't make a right?

Ricky Henderson

 

[Mitchrapp]

Ricky Henderson

Where is the link to this proof? Or is it speculation..

 

[tomdalton22]

Where is the link to this proof? Or is it speculation..

Jose Canseco outed him without naming him. He said a HOF'er that he played with in Oakland. It has to be Ricky Henderson. Even if it isn't Canseco indicated that there is a HOF player that he knows used PEDs. Canseco hasn't been wrong about PED users yet.

 

[Mitchrapp]

There are probably a lots of guys we could speculate on. I think Jose Bautista of the Jays is on something but like I said, if you either got caught or admitted it you shouldn't be in the hall.