2023 NFL Draft

[LKP]

may as well keep a lions tradition alive and draft a rb in the 2nd rd.

Whats better or worse spending money in FA on a back or using a 2nd rounder on one?

 

[grandy]

Whats better or worse spending money in FA on a back or using a 2nd rounder on one?

Neither. IMO spend big on O-line, then throw shit at the wall and see what sticks at RB. Not saying RB ability doesn?t matter, but I prefer a good running scheme with a plug-and-play approach. Outside of a few exceptionally talented backs, it?s probably not worth putting all your eggs in one basket. What?s the best case scenario for RBs these days, playing 75%+ of a season?

 

[tomdalton22]

Neither. IMO spend big on O-line, then throw shit at the wall and see what sticks at RB. Not saying RB ability doesn?t matter, but I prefer a good running scheme with a plug-and-play approach. Outside of a few exceptionally talented backs, it?s probably not worth putting all your eggs in one basket. What?s the best case scenario for RBs these days, playing 75%+ of a season?

right...and 60-70% of the snaps since most teams use multiple backs.

 

[LKP]

I feel like the % of RB hits in Round 1 and 2 is higher than later on. There are some finds there but also like many many more failures that we don't even think about those 3rd-7th rounders/UDFAS not even sniffing the field.

We have the Oline but will have to fix RG with Vaitai cut probably. Decker, Ragnow, Sewell, Jackson are set for 2023. Jackson will need a new contract after 2023 though or maybe this offseason since it's a contract year for him. Is he worth paying top 10 guard money while cutting Vaitai for cap space and replacing Vaitai?

 

[Mitchrapp]

Take a late round RB like round 5-6.

 

[grandy]

I feel like the % of RB hits in Round 1 and 2 is higher than later on. There are some finds there but also like many many more failures that we don't even think about those 3rd-7th rounders/UDFAS not even sniffing the field.

Guess it depends on how success is measured. High round picks are typically going to see more snaps and command more volume early on, while 3rd+ rounders usually have fewer opportunities to develop and prove themselves. If you don?t make a good impression early on, you?re probably going to be stuck at 3/4/5 on the depth chart, lucky to play a few snaps a game.

Yes, higher draft picks usually end up becoming better players, but RB is a bit more murky for me - not as many opportunities as other positions and probably the least forgiving when it comes to making mistakes.

 

[tomdalton22]

I feel like the % of RB hits in Round 1 and 2 is higher than later on. There are some finds there but also like many many more failures that we don't even think about those 3rd-7th rounders/UDFAS not even sniffing the field.

that is probably true for every position...not just RBs

 

[LKP]

that is probably true for every position...not just RBs

Feel like guard, safety and LB can be had day 2 or later more. Sometimes CB it seems too.

Do we trust Holmes to find a day 3 RB that's good is the question. Technically Jamaal Williams was one (4th rounder) and then didn't get huge money in FA. Jamaal is 12th in rush yards and 1st in TDs in rushing. Holmes didn't draft Swift either. Holmes will have waited until year 3 to grab a Round 2 RB if he does take one. If he gets a QB, finds a stud defender and finds another good defense player in Round 2 with Lions pick, I wouldn't mind a RB with Vikings late Round 2. Or even with Lions Round 2 pick, assuming he hits in FA and with the Vikings pick and Round 3 still on defense.

Round 1 RB I could have some issue with. Alot of pressure on that guy and a high bar from Jamaal's production.

 

[mhughes0021]

Talk about keeping the Lions tradition alive, this mock has the Lions picking the ND TE in the first round. :lmao:

https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft...giants-and-jets-should-do-at-the-qb-position/

Fml...

 

[mhughes0021]

Donald out with high ankle sprain...woohoo!

 

[mhughes0021]

If will Anderson is there.. you take him. After that start plugging holes...rg, dt, LB, rb, cb... all of it. I don't care the order.

 

[503]

If will Anderson is there.. you take him. After that start plugging holes...rg, dt, LB, rb, cb... all of it. I don't care the order.

I?d take a franchise changing QB over a pass rusher if one is on the board. QB on a rookie contract for the next 4-5 years and you can plug a lot of other holes.

QB first and foremost then plug holes.

 

[LKP]

I?d take a franchise changing QB over a pass rusher if one is on the board. QB on a rookie contract for the next 4-5 years and you can plug a lot of other holes.

QB first and foremost then plug holes.

Is Stroud, young or Levis a franchise changing qb os the question

I saw a comp of Stroud to Goff and vomited

 

[tomdalton22]

Is Stroud, young or Levis a franchise changing qb os the question

I saw a comp of Stroud to Goff and vomited

who knows if any of the three are franchise changing QBs. Odds are that one is and the other 2 are average at best.

That said, even if Stroud = Goff...how bad would that really be? Goff isn't great, but you would have "Goff 2.0" on a rookie deal vs Goff 1.0 making $35-45M per year. A good GM could build a team around Goff 2.0 on a rookie deal. It will be really hard to build a really good roster around Goff and his contract.

 

[LKP]

who knows if any of the three are franchise changing QBs. Odds are that one is and the other 2 are average at best.

That said, even if Stroud = Goff...how bad would that really be? Goff isn't great, but you would have "Goff 2.0" on a rookie deal vs Goff 1.0 making $35-45M per year. A good GM could build a team around Goff 2.0 on a rookie deal. It will be really hard to build a really good roster around Goff and his contract.

Goff has 30 million cap hit that could be restructured lower moving cap hit into 2024 or 2025 void. If they keep Goff though, you get a cheap defensive player for 4 years instead. A cheap de like anderson is a good thing so you can still build.

They actually have a good amount of cap space even with goff at 30 million. You cut the vaitais, brockers and maybe injured romeo to get more cap space too. Goff doesnt hinder lions building. In fact, using goff would give them an extra early draft pick for defense so that helps the long term build

23 million with goff at 30
7 million losing vaitai
10 million losing brockera

40 million i s PLENTY to build in fa plus like i said, the extra st round draft pick for defense.

However if Young or Stroud are game changers, you take them. Problem is, you dont know if you get who you want until after free agency

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I just think in the current version of the NFL, a top RB really isn't necessary, or even a difference maker. Build a good defense and O-line and you can plug and play RBs.

Current teams with winning records. Most don't have a stud RB

Miami - No top running back here.
Bills - Singletary was a 3rd, and they just traded for a Hines so they know they need more "explosiveness" out of the RB position.
Jets - Breece Hall - 36th pick.
Ravens - JK Dobbins was a 2nd round pick
Bengals - Joe Mixon - 2nd round pick
Titans (Henry was a 2nd)
KC - CEH - 1st round pick
Chargers - Eckeler was an UDFA....thats a pretty nice find. Before that Melvin Gordon...who was 15th overall.
Eagles - Sanders was a 2nd
Cowboys - Zeke was a high 1st
Vikings - Cook was a 2nd
SF (CMC was 8th overall)
Seattle - K9 was a 2nd

Actually, besides a rare fine in Austin Eckeler.....almost every "top" team has a 1st or 2nd round pick as their primary back. I'm not saying that the Lions "NEED" to take a RB in the 1st round in '23......but this is VERY clearly a different offense when Swift is healthy. Having a better 2nd option besides Williams would be a big improvement. Williams is fine for a backup....but we leave yards/points on the field when he's in the game. And at this point.....relying on Swift to do anything more significant than 75 carries in a season is stupid. He has top 5 talent......but is softer than a marshmallow drinking a zima watching Sex in the City.

I would be very happy if the Lions did NOTHING but draft defense.....but they need to address the RB position in SOME way going in to 2023. Having a good OL is only PART of a great running game. I would look at it this way......it's a waste of a good run blocking OL if the back we put behind them isn't as good or better than Swift in 2023.

 

[tomdalton22]

Actually, besides a rare fine in Austin Eckeler.....almost every "top" team has a 1st or 2nd round pick as their primary back. I'm not saying that the Lions "NEED" to take a RB in the 1st round in '23......but this is VERY clearly a different offense when Swift is healthy. Having a better 2nd option besides Williams would be a big improvement. Williams is fine for a backup....but we leave yards/points on the field when he's in the game. And at this point.....relying on Swift to do anything more significant than 75 carries in a season is stupid. He has top 5 talent......but is softer than a marshmallow drinking a zima watching Sex in the City.

I would be very happy if the Lions did NOTHING but draft defense.....but they need to address the RB position in SOME way going in to 2023. Having a good OL is only PART of a great running game. I would look at it this way......it's a waste of a good run blocking OL if the back we put behind them isn't as good or better than Swift in 2023.

I guess you missed my point. I wasn't pointing out where they were picked, I was pointing out that most of them don't have a stud RB. Most of the guys you mentioned in my quote are playing poorly or not playing at all and the teams are still winning.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I guess you missed my point. I wasn't pointing out where they were picked, I was pointing out that most of them don't have a stud RB. Most of the guys you mentioned in my quote are playing poorly or not playing at all and the teams are still winning.

So all of these winning teams have very recently tried or actually HAVE drafted a high (1st or 2nd) round RB because all HC's and OC's know how important it is to an offense, or are they trying to get good at the RB position "just because". Not sure I'm getting the point you're trying to make.

Yes....build defense. Absolutely. I have been tooting that horn all freakin year and will continue to do so until next year. That being said....just throwing shit against the wall when it comes to the RB position is dumb. Swift can't be counted on. Williams is a solid backup and good short yardage guy.....so having him as part of the rotation is a good thing.

Imagine the mid 90's Dallas Cowboys offensive line.....probably the best OL ever. Now put Jamaal Williams, Justin Jackson and Craig Reynolds in the backfield. Are they as good? Do they win Super Bowls? Is Aikman less effective? Is their defense as good being on the field a lot more because they no longer control the clock as effectively?

It's not that different than saying..."We have Aaron Rodgers, we'll put a bunch of mediocre talent around him and it'll be ok".

The Lions improving the RB position absolutely does NOT have to include picking a RB in the 1st round. But just getting a 4th or 5th round guy doesn't IMPROVE anything and means we go into another year counting on Swift for the first 20 touches of the year and then having to bang out yards with a short yardage RB as our primary ball carrier. WOOOOHOOOO!!!!

 

[tomdalton22]

So all of these winning teams have very recently tried or actually HAVE drafted a high (1st or 2nd) round RB because all HC's and OC's know how important it is to an offense, or are they trying to get good at the RB position "just because". Not sure I'm getting the point you're trying to make.

Yes....build defense. Absolutely. I have been tooting that horn all freakin year and will continue to do so until next year. That being said....just throwing shit against the wall when it comes to the RB position is dumb. Swift can't be counted on. Williams is a solid backup and good short yardage guy.....so having him as part of the rotation is a good thing.

Imagine the mid 90's Dallas Cowboys offensive line.....probably the best OL ever. Now put Jamaal Williams, Justin Jackson and Craig Reynolds in the backfield. Are they as good? Do they win Super Bowls? Is Aikman less effective? Is their defense as good being on the field a lot more because they no longer control the clock as effectively?

It's not that different than saying..."We have Aaron Rodgers, we'll put a bunch of mediocre talent around him and it'll be ok".

The Lions improving the RB position absolutely does NOT have to include picking a RB in the 1st round. But just getting a 4th or 5th round guy doesn't IMPROVE anything and means we go into another year counting on Swift for the first 20 touches of the year and then having to bang out yards with a short yardage RB as our primary ball carrier. WOOOOHOOOO!!!!

How do you know a 3rd or 4th round guy won't be an improvement?

Comparing Dallas and Emmitt Smith to today's NFL is funny. Why not just just draft a Jim Brown and run the ball 90% of the time :lmao:

All kidding aside. If I were to run a team I would probably draft a RB between rounds 3-5 almost every year. I would never sign one to a second contract. Keep young guys coming in to replace the old worn out guys.

 

[LKP]

We can do it all this offseason with cap room and the extra early picks we have. QB can get (Round 1), defense can get like four via FA and draft (Round 1 and Round 2), RB can get Round 2 (Vikings pick), Right Guard can get (FA, re-sign Evan Brown or Round 3), TE is now a hole can get try day 3 gem or cheaper FA and Mitchell/Wright can develop more too. Or go Round 3 TE if you go FA RG.

It is up to Holmes to hit on as many picks as he can and then the coaches to develop them and work the scheme so they are productive. Not every player has to be all pro or even good. You can have a bunch of good players/some all pros/game changers and then a few average players sprinkled in and be a winning team and even a consistent winning team.

Our RG is Evan Brown at 2 million right now (due to an injury to very expensive RG) and he is doing a solid job (prior to ankle injury). Jamaal Williams is a cheap FA RB former 4th round pick that is 12th in rush yards and leads the league in TDs. Joseph is a 3rd round safety playing early due to Walker's injury and looking like a ball hawk but makes rookie mistakes. Rookie mistakes can go away with proper coaching.

Pass rushing DT, CB2 (though Jacobs is holding his own now), nickel CB and Mike LB are absolute needs.

RB, TE, RG are lesser needs. RB is a need though with Jackson and Williams becoming FAs. RG a need with Brown a FA and Vaitai probably being cut for extra 7 million in cap space.

DE is it a need. Depends on the plan with a healthy Charles Harris (and if cut), a healthy Romeo Okwara (and if cut), Hutch and Josh Paschal. Same as QB here, if a stud like Anderson is there you take the game changer even though you have solid DEs and already one really good/talented one in Hutch. But you can have success with the 4 guys listed plus maybe James Houston/Julian O as the rush LB with back to back 2 sack games between them.

And then QB we hope a franchise guy is staring us in the face with the Rams pick if Anderson not there