Couches, deadly inside and out

[Mitchrapp]

OT maybe but why have a couch on the front porch? Who does that.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Mitch[/color]]OT maybe but why have a couch on the front porch? Who does that.

For the most part...Spartans.

 

[Michchamp]

What's all this about deer season?

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

What's all this about deer season?

Check the 13 pages of the new commitment thread. I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

 

[wolverine304]

Down hurr in dub v its always hunnin season. Git r done.

 

[Michchamp]

okay, I read the last page.

I have no problem with hunting for food or for sport, but certainly, the latter gets kind of a gray area. I think going out and blasting away indiscriminately at things, leaving dead carcasses around, etc. is tasteless and ignorant.

The people I know who do hunt deer actually take the carcass to be butchered, freeze the meat, and eat it all winter. of course, they don't NEED to do this, since they could easily buy food at a grocery store, but it does save them money, so why not? Deer aren't an endangered species, and it can't be a worse death for the deer than starving, or getting eaten by wolves or coyotes.

There is skill involved in hunting, even with firearms. The people that think it's easy to shoot a moving target, or even a stationary target have seen too many movies.

On the other hand, I think some forms of hunting are unsportsmanlike and pathetic... shooting wolves from a helicopter for example. Another would be going to one of those assholes' game farms, where they basically have captive animals being fed waiting for you to shoot them.

There has to be some amount of stalking and tracking involved in order to make it a sport.

also: Ted Nugent is a dumbass, and an embarrassment to the state of Michigan.

 

[Michchamp]

Also pt. 2: hunting big game is still dangerous, even with a firearm.

Hitting a moving target is very difficult, and if that moving target is a grizzly bear that can take multiple shots and still charge... yikes. This one took 5 from a heavy revolver at close range, and still almost mauled the guy: http://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2009/08/31/man-kills-charging-bear-with-454-casull/

 

[Mitchrapp]

okay, I read the last page.

I have no problem with hunting for food or for sport, but certainly, the latter gets kind of a gray area. I think going out and blasting away indiscriminately at things, leaving dead carcasses around, etc. is tasteless and ignorant.

The people I know who do hunt deer actually take the carcass to be butchered, freeze the meat, and eat it all winter. of course, they don't NEED to do this, since they could easily buy food at a grocery store, but it does save them money, so why not? Deer aren't an endangered species, and it can't be a worse death for the deer than starving, or getting eaten by wolves or coyotes.

There is skill involved in hunting, even with firearms. The people that think it's easy to shoot a moving target, or even a stationary target have seen too many movies.

On the other hand, I think some forms of hunting are unsportsmanlike and pathetic... shooting wolves from a helicopter for example. Another would be going to one of those assholes' game farms, where they basically have captive animals being fed waiting for you to shoot them.

There has to be some amount of stalking and tracking involved in order to make it a sport.

also: Ted Nugent is a dumbass, and an embarrassment to the state of Michigan.

Nugent is well educated, just saying.

 

[Michchamp]

haha, good one. I guess you do have a sense of humor after all.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

okay, I read the last page.

I have no problem with hunting for food or for sport, but certainly, the latter gets kind of a gray area. I think going out and blasting away indiscriminately at things, leaving dead carcasses around, etc. is tasteless and ignorant.

The people I know who do hunt deer actually take the carcass to be butchered, freeze the meat, and eat it all winter. of course, they don't NEED to do this, since they could easily buy food at a grocery store, but it does save them money, so why not? Deer aren't an endangered species, and it can't be a worse death for the deer than starving, or getting eaten by wolves or coyotes.

There is skill involved in hunting, even with firearms. The people that think it's easy to shoot a moving target, or even a stationary target have seen too many movies.

On the other hand, I think some forms of hunting are unsportsmanlike and pathetic... shooting wolves from a helicopter for example. Another would be going to one of those assholes' game farms, where they basically have captive animals being fed waiting for you to shoot them.

There has to be some amount of stalking and tracking involved in order to make it a sport.

also: Ted Nugent is a dumbass, and an embarrassment to the state of Michigan.

One guy in the thread apparently just shoots wolves and coyotes because he hates them.

I argued that there wasn't much skill in hunting deer in Michigan - meaning - that if you took someone who was an expert target shooter who'd never been hunting in his life and told him to go hunt a deer; he'd probably have a similar success rate to those who've hunted in Michigan for 30+ years.

In the very beginning of the argument I simply stated that I don't see the need, or the joy, in going on and killing something for sport or food as there's really no reason to do it anymore. I argued that a butcher kills things for us as a profession, not for fun, and I find it barbaric to kill things and find it "fun" while doing so. People in the 1800's hunted because they needed to and I doubt that many of them found it "fun". The fact that hunting is "fun" to people is just creepy to me.

 

[Michchamp]

to each his own, I guess. We will have to agree to disagree.

I do think you should probably get more information before you dismiss the challenge of bagging a deer in Michigan as "easy." there's a lot more to it than just wandering around in the woods with a rifle, or 12-gauge... although one could get lucky.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

to each his own, I guess. We will have to agree to disagree.

I do think you should probably get more information before you dismiss the challenge of bagging a deer in Michigan as "easy." there's a lot more to it than just wandering around in the woods with a rifle, or 12-gauge... although one could get lucky.

I agreed that there's definitely skill in hunting - like if you were to go on an Alaskan hunt. A guide would be necessary to let you know where the game is and all that, and probably how to camp in the wild there. But for the most part, in Michigan, hunters are situated on small plots of land around 100 acres or so or they're using public hunting grounds to hunt. In these circumstances one could be just as successful because there really isn't much "tracking" the game that goes on. Most hunting done here is done by sitting in a blind, putting out salt or food and just waiting.

There are a few things that could give you an advantage, like specifically knowing where a game trail is, but I'd assume most people have the common sense to find that kind of thing. I'd like to think that most of us have basic hunting instincts juts from common sense type applications.

 

[redandguilty]

okay, I read the last page.

I have no problem with hunting for food or for sport, but certainly, the latter gets kind of a gray area. I think going out and blasting away indiscriminately at things, leaving dead carcasses around, etc. is tasteless and ignorant.

The people I know who do hunt deer actually take the carcass to be butchered, freeze the meat, and eat it all winter. of course, they don't NEED to do this, since they could easily buy food at a grocery store, but it does save them money, so why not? Deer aren't an endangered species, and it can't be a worse death for the deer than starving, or getting eaten by wolves or coyotes.

There is skill involved in hunting, even with firearms. The people that think it's easy to shoot a moving target, or even a stationary target have seen too many movies.

On the other hand, I think some forms of hunting are unsportsmanlike and pathetic... shooting wolves from a helicopter for example. Another would be going to one of those assholes' game farms, where they basically have captive animals being fed waiting for you to shoot them.

There has to be some amount of stalking and tracking involved in order to make it a sport.

also: Ted Nugent is a dumbass, and an embarrassment to the state of Michigan.

One guy in the thread apparently just shoots wolves and coyotes because he hates them.

I argued that there wasn't much skill in hunting deer in Michigan - meaning - that if you took someone who was an expert target shooter who'd never been hunting in his life and told him to go hunt a deer; he'd probably have a similar success rate to those who've hunted in Michigan for 30+ years.

In the very beginning of the argument I simply stated that I don't see the need, or the joy, in going on and killing something for sport or food as there's really no reason to do it anymore. I argued that a butcher kills things for us as a profession, not for fun, and I find it barbaric to kill things and find it "fun" while doing so. People in the 1800's hunted because they needed to and I doubt that many of them found it "fun". The fact that hunting is "fun" to people is just creepy to me.

My wife loves gardening. There's no practical reason she should be doing it. Harvesting food is fun. Add strategy and the element of hunting for something, there is definitely an appeal that can outweigh the negative of killing something if you rationalize it.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

One guy in the thread apparently just shoots wolves and coyotes because he hates them.

I argued that there wasn't much skill in hunting deer in Michigan - meaning - that if you took someone who was an expert target shooter who'd never been hunting in his life and told him to go hunt a deer; he'd probably have a similar success rate to those who've hunted in Michigan for 30+ years.

In the very beginning of the argument I simply stated that I don't see the need, or the joy, in going on and killing something for sport or food as there's really no reason to do it anymore. I argued that a butcher kills things for us as a profession, not for fun, and I find it barbaric to kill things and find it "fun" while doing so. People in the 1800's hunted because they needed to and I doubt that many of them found it "fun". The fact that hunting is "fun" to people is just creepy to me.

My wife loves gardening. There's no practical reason she should be doing it. Harvesting food is fun. Add strategy and the element of hunting for something, there is definitely an appeal that can outweigh the negative of killing something if you rationalize it.

I'd argue that gardening makes sense because that food tastes better than food in the store and it's by far cheaper. It's extremely practical. It's also renewable, you can take seeds from before and plant them next year.

Some of that justification can go along with hunting, but in the end people do find the "kill" fun; which is still disturbing. I wouldn't find gardening fun if I had to kill and animal to do it.

 

[Mitchrapp]

to each his own, I guess. We will have to agree to disagree.

I do think you should probably get more information before you dismiss the challenge of bagging a deer in Michigan as "easy." there's a lot more to it than just wandering around in the woods with a rifle, or 12-gauge... although one could get lucky.

I agreed that there's definitely skill in hunting - like if you were to go on an Alaskan hunt. A guide would be necessary to let you know where the game is and all that, and probably how to camp in the wild there. But for the most part, in Michigan, hunters are situated on small plots of land around 100 acres or so or they're using public hunting grounds to hunt. In these circumstances one could be just as successful because there really isn't much "tracking" the game that goes on. Most hunting done here is done by sitting in a blind, putting out salt or food and just waiting.

There are a few things that could give you an advantage, like specifically knowing where a game trail is, but I'd assume most people have the common sense to find that kind of thing. I'd like to think that most of us have basic hunting instincts juts from common sense type applications.

Not me I'd be lost out there.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I have no idea when California deer hunting season is, or how far a hunter who lived in my neighborhood would have to travel before that hunter would be allowed to try and kill anything.

Over the years I've seen lots of deer right in the LA City limits, when I'd be up running my dogs through the mountains - lots of coyotes, too, and a mountain lion once.

Pretty sure nobody would ever be allowed to shoot at one in the city limits though.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Mitch[/color]]

I agreed that there's definitely skill in hunting - like if you were to go on an Alaskan hunt. A guide would be necessary to let you know where the game is and all that, and probably how to camp in the wild there. But for the most part, in Michigan, hunters are situated on small plots of land around 100 acres or so or they're using public hunting grounds to hunt. In these circumstances one could be just as successful because there really isn't much "tracking" the game that goes on. Most hunting done here is done by sitting in a blind, putting out salt or food and just waiting.

There are a few things that could give you an advantage, like specifically knowing where a game trail is, but I'd assume most people have the common sense to find that kind of thing. I'd like to think that most of us have basic hunting instincts juts from common sense type applications.

Not me I'd be lost out there.

I really don't think you would. As I said - most hunters just sit in a pre-made blind all day. I know my uncle built three on his property and he just rotates between the three. A lot of it just comes down to luck and how well you can shoot. If you shoot, you're halfway there.

 

[Michchamp]

No human has hunting "instincts" really. Dogs, wolves, lions, etc. all do.

Humans, apes, etc. were mostly gatherers that would occasionally eat small easy to catch things (bugs, rodents, birds etc.) to supplement their diet.

go back 100,000 years... we're all in East Africa, with a few rudimentary stone tools. What exactly are we hunting? We are too slow to catch gazelles, zebras, giraffes, etc. We have nothing that could take down an elephant, rhino, or hippo. And lions, tigers, cheetahs, etc. all present HUGE risks when out in the bush.

no hunting instincts there. we learned them through trial and error, making spears, getting together in groups, following beasts around. Dogs probably helped us too.

I like dogs.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Mitch[/color]]

Not me I'd be lost out there.

I really don't think you would. As I said - most hunters just sit in a pre-made blind all day. I know my uncle built three on his property and he just rotates between the three. A lot of it just comes down to luck and how well you can shoot. If you shoot, you're halfway there.

I'd probably shoot my foot.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

No human has hunting "instincts" really. Dogs, wolves, lions, etc. all do.

Humans, apes, etc. were mostly gatherers that would occasionally eat small easy to catch things (bugs, rodents, birds etc.) to supplement their diet.

go back 100,000 years... we're all in East Africa, with a few rudimentary stone tools. What exactly are we hunting? We are too slow to catch gazelles, zebras, giraffes, etc. We have nothing that could take down an elephant, rhino, or hippo. And lions, tigers, cheetahs, etc. all present HUGE risks when out in the bush.

no hunting instincts there. we learned them through trial and error, making spears, getting together in groups, following beasts around. Dogs probably helped us too.

I like dogs.

I did point that out in the other thread too - but I argued that most people know simple things based on common knowledge and not just hunting knowledge....like animals will come to food.