Couches, deadly inside and out

[lostleader]

Mitch[/color]]I don't hunt but what's the difference between shooting a deer or having a Puma kill it? Its all the same.

not really. A wolf kills a bear because that's how it survives - a wolf doesn't find it fun. MOST hunters hunt for fun and don't actually need to hunt. IMO it's a want vs. a need and the want to hunt is weird to me - that's all. I don't want to kill anything so I leave it to the people who do it professionally. That's not to say I wouldn't do it to survive, but I would take no joy in it or call it a sport.

Wait a minute. Didn't I already prove that this was wrong. WOLVES KILL FOR FUN. This is a documented fact!

 

[Michchamp]

my dog also hated squirrels, and chipmunks. Also raccoons.

I was a proponent of letting him kill something once, just for his confidence, and because I knew it would make his day, but everyone overruled me.

The biggest concern was that he'd run into the street and get hit by a car. That was legit. He was smart enough to know not to do that, but in the heat of the chase, I don't think he'd notice it.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

not really. A wolf kills a bear because that's how it survives - a wolf doesn't find it fun. MOST hunters hunt for fun and don't actually need to hunt. IMO it's a want vs. a need and the want to hunt is weird to me - that's all. I don't want to kill anything so I leave it to the people who do it professionally. That's not to say I wouldn't do it to survive, but I would take no joy in it or call it a sport.

there are documented incidences of animals killing for sport or fun.

Killer whales are pretty much assholes to everything else in the ocean.

I watched a documentary once on groundhogs (or it may have been prairie dogs...) either way, they were fighting a "clan war" and I watched an older one kill a younger rival. It was a pretty absurd looking fight, but vicious nevertheless.

My dog liked to chase rabbits, and I imagine he would've caught them and killed them if he wasn't on his leash. He certainly didn't need to eat them for food.

But do they kill because that's what they're programmed to do - or do they do it for "fun"? I'm guessing your dog chases something because it's instinctual and when it kills it - they don't know what to do with it.

Fun fact - they put squeaky things in dog toys to mimic the sound of dying animals.

and a person who is "programmed to kill" would be scary to me.

The difference is that we are one of the few species, if not the only one, to know of the existence of death. From very early on we know we, along with everything else, will die at some point. Animals don't understand the concept of death. A dog killing something isn't as important because it doesn't understand what it just did. It's the same reason if a five year old kills someone they are treated differently than an 18 year old who does the same act.

 

[tinselwolverine]

not really. A wolf kills a bear because that's how it survives - a wolf doesn't find it fun. MOST hunters hunt for fun and don't actually need to hunt. IMO it's a want vs. a need and the want to hunt is weird to me - that's all. I don't want to kill anything so I leave it to the people who do it professionally. That's not to say I wouldn't do it to survive, but I would take no joy in it or call it a sport.

there are documented incidences of animals killing for sport or fun.

Killer whales are pretty much assholes to everything else in the ocean.

I watched a documentary once on groundhogs (or it may have been prairie dogs...) either way, they were fighting a "clan war" and I watched an older one kill a younger rival. It was a pretty absurd looking fight, but vicious nevertheless.

My dog liked to chase rabbits, and I imagine he would've caught them and killed them if he wasn't on his leash. He certainly didn't need to eat them for food.

Sure, our own dear pets kill for fun. Dogs sometimes catch and kill squirrerls; those dogs on the English Fox Hunts love to rip that ****in' fox to shreads, and cats love to kill mice and birds.

My dogs love to bite squeaky toys until they don't squeak anymore - they think they've killed it. Then they bring it to me as a trophy.

Cats will bring birds and mice to their people as trophies, too.

 

[redandguilty]

It is more expensive by far to grow your own vegetables in a small backyard garden. You'd think all you need is seeds and water, but you'd be surprised. It's more expensive than getting vegetables from the farmers' market.

But to your other point, I can't explain people that enjoy killing things. I'm just saying that it could have appeal for other reasons. I suspect that it does for the majority, but I don't know how we're going to get into other people's heads to find out.

Not for me? I go to blocks, a place by the Detroit Metro Airport, and you can get plants for like $2 a pop. Most plants give you a ton of veggies and the ones that don't, like carrots or cabbage heads, you can usually do well with those just by planting the seeds and a package of seeds is like $1. Now if you go all out and buy soil, fertilizer, fancy supports for the plants - that's where it gets expensive. But my small garden this year was great. I spent like $10 on the whole thing and ended up with cucumbers, peppers and tomatoes all summer. I made a lot of great salads.

Our garden is fancy. I built tiered boxes, had a truckload of dirt delivered, our hose winds on a crank in a box, there's a composter, beans grow on these artistic metal obelisk structures. It's her hobby, she likes having it pretty.

But that's not the point, just the seeds and plants run us about $50 a year, and if you don't use insecticide, you'd better get everything else right, and that costs money too (like adding peat to the soil). Bugs are probably worse in NC.

 

[Michchamp]

there are documented incidences of animals killing for sport or fun.

Killer whales are pretty much assholes to everything else in the ocean.

I watched a documentary once on groundhogs (or it may have been prairie dogs...) either way, they were fighting a "clan war" and I watched an older one kill a younger rival. It was a pretty absurd looking fight, but vicious nevertheless.

My dog liked to chase rabbits, and I imagine he would've caught them and killed them if he wasn't on his leash. He certainly didn't need to eat them for food.

But do they kill because that's what they're programmed to do - or do they do it for "fun"? I'm guessing your dog chases something because it's instinctual and when it kills it - they don't know what to do with it.

Fun fact - they put squeaky things in dog toys to mimic the sound of dying animals.

they would do it for fun.

Killer whales that come across other species of whales, even ones that they do not compete with for food, will kill them, then just swim away. They also like to bully penguins, seals, etc., sometimes killing them. marine biologists have observed all this.

wolves in a pack will "play" with lesser animals they come across, even if they've already eaten.

 

[Mitchrapp]

How about those widow spiders and others who eat their mate after sex? Gotta be for fun, right?

 

[tinselwolverine]

TinselWolverine[/color]]

I doubt a wolf or wolves kill a bear very often, if ever...

haha oops, don't worry I got this:
http://www.us-parks.com/yellowstone-national-park/bears-and-wolves.html

"Wolves sometimes kill bears, but likely only young, old, or otherwise weakened bears."

lol, I knew it!

This appeared in the article right before your copy/paste:

"Few instances of direct mortality to either species have been documented. Instances of wolves killing bears and bears killing wolves have been reported, but such events are rare and considered the exception."

lol, I knew it!

 

[lostleader]

I'd argue that gardening makes sense because that food tastes better than food in the store and it's by far cheaper. It's extremely practical. It's also renewable, you can take seeds from before and plant them next year.

Some of that justification can go along with hunting, but in the end people do find the "kill" fun; which is still disturbing. I wouldn't find gardening fun if I had to kill and animal to do it.

It is more expensive by far to grow your own vegetables in a small backyard garden. You'd think all you need is seeds and water, but you'd be surprised. It's more expensive than getting vegetables from the farmers' market.

But to your other point, I can't explain people that enjoy killing things. I'm just saying that it could have appeal for other reasons. I suspect that it does for the majority, but I don't know how we're going to get into other people's heads to find out.

Not true. I put out a large garden and have donated a lot of my haverst in the past. However I bought a large canner this year for $5 at an auction and now we supply ourselves with fresh food from our garden all winter long.

Also we have fresh meat, that we harvest.(yes my wife began hunting this year) And guess what. I don't have livestock on my property, I don't have to feed, water, or provide medical care for them. If I leave for an extended period of time, I don't have to worry about my animals. They can fend for themselves and each fall, I fill my freezer. I don't go to Kroger, and I keep the Man out of my business.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Not for me? I go to blocks, a place by the Detroit Metro Airport, and you can get plants for like $2 a pop. Most plants give you a ton of veggies and the ones that don't, like carrots or cabbage heads, you can usually do well with those just by planting the seeds and a package of seeds is like $1. Now if you go all out and buy soil, fertilizer, fancy supports for the plants - that's where it gets expensive. But my small garden this year was great. I spent like $10 on the whole thing and ended up with cucumbers, peppers and tomatoes all summer. I made a lot of great salads.

Our garden is fancy. I built tiered boxes, had a truckload of dirt delivered, our hose winds on a crank in a box, there's a composter, beans grow on these artistic metal obelisk structures. It's her hobby, she likes having it pretty.

But that's not the point, just the seeds and plants run us about $50 a year, and if you don't use insecticide, you'd better get everything else right, and that costs money too (like adding peat to the soil). Bugs are probably worse in NC.

So how many plants do you get for $50 and how much produce do you get? Because if you have 50 plants; that would likely be a great deal, heck, even 25 plants would be a good deal considering most yield a ton of produce all summer long.

 

[Michchamp]

there are documented incidences of animals killing for sport or fun.

Killer whales are pretty much assholes to everything else in the ocean.

I watched a documentary once on groundhogs (or it may have been prairie dogs...) either way, they were fighting a "clan war" and I watched an older one kill a younger rival. It was a pretty absurd looking fight, but vicious nevertheless.

My dog liked to chase rabbits, and I imagine he would've caught them and killed them if he wasn't on his leash. He certainly didn't need to eat them for food.

The difference is that we are one of the few species, if not the only one, to know of the existence of death. From very early on we know we, along with everything else, will die at some point. Animals don't understand the concept of death. A dog killing something isn't as important because it doesn't understand what it just did. It's the same reason if a five year old kills someone they are treated differently than an 18 year old who does the same act.

okay, you just changed the subject.

 

[redandguilty]

Mitch[/color]]How about those widow spiders and others who eat their mate after sex? Gotta be for fun, right?

Got those in my garden too.

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

The difference is that we are one of the few species, if not the only one, to know of the existence of death. From very early on we know we, along with everything else, will die at some point. Animals don't understand the concept of death. A dog killing something isn't as important because it doesn't understand what it just did. It's the same reason if a five year old kills someone they are treated differently than an 18 year old who does the same act.

okay, you just changed the subject.

It's related. And there's no way to know an animal is killing for "fun" because out of instinct I wouldn't consider the same as killing for "fun".

 

[redandguilty]

It is more expensive by far to grow your own vegetables in a small backyard garden. You'd think all you need is seeds and water, but you'd be surprised. It's more expensive than getting vegetables from the farmers' market.

But to your other point, I can't explain people that enjoy killing things. I'm just saying that it could have appeal for other reasons. I suspect that it does for the majority, but I don't know how we're going to get into other people's heads to find out.

Not true. I put out a large garden and have donated a lot of my haverst in the past. However I bought a large canner this year for $5 at an auction and now we supply ourselves with fresh food from our garden all winter long.

Also we have fresh meat, that we harvest.(yes my wife began hunting this year) And guess what. I don't have livestock on my property, I don't have to feed, water, or provide medical care for them. If I leave for an extended period of time, I don't have to worry about my animals. They can fend for themselves and each fall, I fill my freezer. I don't go to Kroger, and I keep the Man out of my business.

Yeah, a large garden can be economical. I just think a small one is only going to save you money if you're really lucky and have great soil and no pests.

 

[wolverine304]

Ever heard of a dog going and hiding when its about to die? Or staying around a person when they're ill. Obviously they do understand death.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Ever heard of a dog going and hiding when its about to die? Or staying around a person when they're ill. Obviously they do understand death.

Or elephants.

 

[lostleader]

there are documented incidences of animals killing for sport or fun.

Killer whales are pretty much assholes to everything else in the ocean.

I watched a documentary once on groundhogs (or it may have been prairie dogs...) either way, they were fighting a "clan war" and I watched an older one kill a younger rival. It was a pretty absurd looking fight, but vicious nevertheless.

My dog liked to chase rabbits, and I imagine he would've caught them and killed them if he wasn't on his leash. He certainly didn't need to eat them for food.

But do they kill because that's what they're programmed to do - or do they do it for "fun"? I'm guessing your dog chases something because it's instinctual and when it kills it - they don't know what to do with it.

Fun fact - they put squeaky things in dog toys to mimic the sound of dying animals.

and a person who is "programmed to kill" would be scary to me.

The difference is that we are one of the few species, if not the only one, to know of the existence of death. From very early on we know we, along with everything else, will die at some point. Animals don't understand the concept of death. A dog killing something isn't as important because it doesn't understand what it just did. It's the same reason if a five year old kills someone they are treated differently than an 18 year old who does the same act.

We were all programed to kill, If you remove the stores you buy your groceries at, what will you do. You would have to harvest your own meat. You choose not to do it, because it is available for you. But that luxury has not always been around.

You are man enough to cook and grill the meat, but to put in all the work that goes into your steak dinner, you can't. Most people are like this, but why hate on us who are not!

 

[MAIZEandBLUE09]

Don't get me wrong, I've had a venison roast before and I loved it - I just don't get the joy in killing it.

 

[lostleader]

Not true. I put out a large garden and have donated a lot of my haverst in the past. However I bought a large canner this year for $5 at an auction and now we supply ourselves with fresh food from our garden all winter long.

Also we have fresh meat, that we harvest.(yes my wife began hunting this year) And guess what. I don't have livestock on my property, I don't have to feed, water, or provide medical care for them. If I leave for an extended period of time, I don't have to worry about my animals. They can fend for themselves and each fall, I fill my freezer. I don't go to Kroger, and I keep the Man out of my business.

Yeah, a large garden can be economical. I just think a small one is only going to save you money if you're really lucky and have great soil and no pests.

instead of using pesticides (and I do sparingly) buy a bag of lime and dust your plants. It works and its cheap. a 50 pound bag will last a long time and works just like 7 dust

 

[lostleader]

Don't get me wrong, I've had a venison roast before and I loved it - I just don't get the joy in killing it.

Who ever said they enjoy killing anything. I don't, and don't know anyone who does. We just know its a fact of life, and it must be done. The same as a steer, hog, chicken, or even those guppies you catch!