Fielder for Kinsler trade

[tomdalton22]

Yeah OK. Complete accuracy is a moronic phrase. It is either accurate, or it isn't. What would make it complete?

So let's look at it your way for a minute.


Let's see if we can make this easier for other's the follow, based on your valuation principle.

I own a $165,000 house. It's value is only $115,000. And I have 7 years to pay it off. You have $65,000 house that is only valued at $45,000. And there is either 4 or 5 years left to pay. I give you $30,000 dollars to trade houses. I now have a $65,000 house and I do not have to account for the $30,000, because my previous house I owed more than it's value?

OK...That $65,000 house's value ($45,000) did not change by this deal. It is still a $65,000 house. But, my costs associated are more than just what is left owed on it. That $30,000 is now somewhat tied to that $65,000 house, but just for you. If you now sold the $65,000 house, it is still just a $65,000?

Also, valuations from one year to the next can fluctuate. Next year, that $165,000 becomes $141,000 and could be valued at $130,000. And the $65,000 becomes $49,000 and have a value of $19,000. So where does it leave that $30,000?

Let's try using automobiles instead. I want to get out from under my $165,000 vehicle. I pay $30,000 to get out of the contract, but have to buy a $65,000 car in the process. The $30,000 is now linked to that $65,000 car, but just for me. If I get rid of the $65,000 car, it is still just a $65,000 car to the next buyer.

Valuations does not factor into costs. It might justify the cost, but it doesn't change to amount that needs to be accounted for. The $30,000 is still a payroll cost, regardless how you spin it. And tax laws will mandate accounting for it in your payroll. You can assign Fielder's name to it, even though he is no longer an employee. Got it. But indirectly, it now is part of having Kinsler on this team.

The problem with using these examples is you are not factoring in opportunity cost, annual budget and the luxury tax threshold.

 

[Thundercats]

I also beg you to think about where Kinsler played a good part of his road games. Half of his road games came in pitcher friendly parks the past 3 years. O.Co, Safeco, Anaheim, and the only neutral park in the division outside of texas(Houston), he actually did pretty well with a .885 OPS over 63 ABs.

 

[byco42]

you get an upgrade over infante, an upgrade at 1b and a defensive upgrade at 3b and savings to pay a guy like scherzer who wants to stay...what's not to like? Fielder had his chance and sucked....time to move on...even if it meant overpaying for kinsler.

Eric Stratton could not have said it better.

 

[byco42]

It's funny that the people pissed about this trade are the same ones who were touting Iglesias as a future hall of famer when we aquired him. What's terribly funny is that Dombrowski couldn't even commit to Iglesias being our starting shortstop in an interview last night. Disagreeing with most moves the front office makes, and the moves the majority of people applaud doesn't make you smart. Why not just see how it all works out before acting like the crew of MLB tonight? Most people like this deal, and most people understand it's about money long term and flexibility to make more moves this off-season. We can disagree about everything, which is a popular path for a couple of people, but at this point nobody is right or wrong. We have no idea how Ian Kinsler will play for the Tigers.

Just step out of the fray if you don't want to engage. Others do.

 

[Rebbiv]

Anyone that thinks Kinsler is a true all-star is kidding themselves, but he's still a solid player who can offer good defense and high OBP at the top of the lineup. Fielder is better overall, but if this trade allows us to nab either Ellsbury or Choo, then it's a masterpiece of a deal. That $30 million down the road can probably be offset by Hunter and Victor's contracts going away after this year. A new DH wouldn't cost nearly as much as Victor, nor should it cost so much for an average right fielder not named Torii Hunter. I just don't understand the point in debating the players right now. This deal is not just Kinsler for Prince. DD is going to turn this into Prince for Kinsler and more. Nobody should think Kinsler is a great player. He gets on base though, regardless of home or away.[/QUOTE]


WOW. .307 OBP on the road is not getting on base.

AL West Parks
at LAA = .384 OBP

at SEA = .330 OBP

at OAK = .264 OBP

AL Central
at DET = .298 OBP

at MIN = .288 OBP

at CLE = .286 OBP

at CHW = .268 OBP



Keep trying Sheed.

 

[Rebbiv]

The problem with using these examples is you are not factoring in opportunity cost, annual budget and the luxury tax threshold.

Let's try and keep it focused Tom. Squirrel!

There is nothing wrong with these examples to help some understand there is $30,000 is this deal that has to be addressed.


Opportunity cost, annual budget and the luxury tax threshold justify why the money was spent. It does not account for it.

 

[byco42]

Anyone that thinks Kinsler is a true all-star is kidding themselves, but he's still a solid player who can offer good defense and high OBP at the top of the lineup. Fielder is better overall, but if this trade allows us to nab either Ellsbury or Choo, then it's a masterpiece of a deal. That $30 million down the road can probably be offset by Hunter and Victor's contracts going away after this year. A new DH wouldn't cost nearly as much as Victor, nor should it cost so much for an average right fielder not named Torii Hunter. I just don't understand the point in debating the players right now. This deal is not just Kinsler for Prince. DD is going to turn this into Prince for Kinsler and more. Nobody should think Kinsler is a great player. He gets on base though, regardless of home or away.[/QUOTE]


WOW. .307 OBP on the road is not getting on base.

AL West Parks
at LAA = .384 OBP

at SEA = .330 OBP

at OAK = .264 OBP

AL Central
at DET = .298 OBP

at MIN = .288 OBP

at CLE = .286 OBP

at CHW = .268 OBP



Keep trying Sheed.

He said Kinsler "gets on base regardless of home or away." No mention of how often. That's "completely accurate."

 

[tomdalton22]

Let's try and keep it focused Tom. Squirrel!

There is nothing wrong with these examples to help some understand there is $30,000 is this deal that has to be addressed.


Opportunity cost, annual budget and the luxury tax threshold justify why the money was spent. It does not account for it.

stay focused....it's $30M...not $30,000.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Anyone that thinks Kinsler is a true all-star is kidding themselves, but he's still a solid player who can offer good defense and high OBP at the top of the lineup. Fielder is better overall, but if this trade allows us to nab either Ellsbury or Choo, then it's a masterpiece of a deal. That $30 million down the road can probably be offset by Hunter and Victor's contracts going away after this year. A new DH wouldn't cost nearly as much as Victor, nor should it cost so much for an average right fielder not named Torii Hunter. I just don't understand the point in debating the players right now. This deal is not just Kinsler for Prince. DD is going to turn this into Prince for Kinsler and more. Nobody should think Kinsler is a great player. He gets on base though, regardless of home or away.[/QUOTE]


WOW. .307 OBP on the road is not getting on base.

AL West Parks
at LAA = .384 OBP

at SEA = .330 OBP

at OAK = .264 OBP

AL Central
at DET = .298 OBP

at MIN = .288 OBP

at CLE = .286 OBP

at CHW = .268 OBP



Keep trying Sheed.

That's rich. You mention about Grandy's OBP as a plus yet last 2 years on the road, .310 2012, .295 2013.

 

[Rebbiv]

That's rich. You mention about Grandy's OBP as a plus yet last 2 years on the road, .310 2012, .295 2013.

Walk rate is a plus. Did I specifically say Grandy's OBP?

And I see you conveniently admitted 2011's Away OBP of .369.

 

[Rebbiv]

stay focused....it's $30M...not $30,000.

You're right. I messed up.

 

[biggunsbob]

I like the deal more and more as the day's pass. Great for the board...Keeps me reading all the great posts and thoughts on here....

 

[Mitchrapp]

Walk rate is a plus. Did I specifically say Grandy's OBP?

And I see you conveniently admitted 2011's Away OBP of .369.

Wasn't worth mentioning because 2009 and 2010 had his usual low OBP.

And yes you did say his OBP was a plus..

 

[twentythree]

I don't know if this question has been asked.

What happens to Omar Infante? Is he backup for Kinsler? Does he play elsewhere (infield)? Does he get traded or encouraged to sign with a different team?

 

[tomdalton22]

I don't know if this question has been asked.

What happens to Omar Infante? Is he backup for Kinsler? Does he play elsewhere (infield)? Does he get traded or encouraged to sign with a different team?

he is a free agent

 

[Rebbiv]

Wasn't worth mentioning because 2009 and 2010 had his usual low OBP.

And yes you did say his OBP was a plus..

So show the link were I posted that

 

[turok]

Miggy ain't taking his BFF Prince's departure all too well as is very understandable, since they quickly became close soon after the start of ST in '12: His twtter is rather poignant:

https://twitter.com/MiguelCabrera

Hope that he can recover from the loss of his amigo on the Tigers team, but obviously it will take awhile, if not quite awhile.

 

[tomdalton22]

Miggy ain't taking his BFF Prince's departure all too well as is very understandable, since they quickly became close soon after the start of ST in '12: His twtter is rather poignant:

https://twitter.com/MiguelCabrera

Hope that he can recover from the loss of his amigo on the Tigers team, but obviously it will take awhile, if not quite awhile.

players get traded or leave via free agency all the time....he'll get over it.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

Most players play better at home, regardless of where home is. I don't know if people realize this, but Comerica plays as a hitters park. Not quite to the same degress as the Rangers ballpark, but still a hitters park. In fact, last year we rated as the third most hitter friendly park in the league (Rangers ballpark was 17th). Playing at home isn't just about the ballpark, it's also fringe benefits of waking up in your own bed, playing in front of supportive fans, and minor biases that lean towards the home team.

 

[Rebbiv]

Most players play better at home, regardless of where home is. I don't know if people realize this, but Comerica plays as a hitters park. Not quite to the same degress as the Rangers ballpark, but still a hitters park. In fact, last year we rated as the third most hitter friendly park in the league (Rangers ballpark was 17th). Playing at home isn't just about the ballpark, it's also fringe benefits of waking up in your own bed, playing in front of supportive fans, and minor biases that lean towards the home team.

Wrong

http://www.billjamesonline.com/the_best_and_worst_hitters_parks/