Fielder for Kinsler trade

[tomdalton22]

Most players play better at home, regardless of where home is. I don't know if people realize this, but Comerica plays as a hitters park. Not quite to the same degress as the Rangers ballpark, but still a hitters park. In fact, last year we rated as the third most hitter friendly park in the league (Rangers ballpark was 17th). Playing at home isn't just about the ballpark, it's also fringe benefits of waking up in your own bed, playing in front of supportive fans, and minor biases that lean towards the home team.

from what I have read TX is 2nd and Comerica Park is 14th...right in the middle.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

from what I have read TX is 2nd and Comerica Park is 14th...right in the middle.

That is based on a three year study that didn't include 2013. Texas' was way down this year and Comerica was way up, which would overall push them pretty close. Park factors are heaving influenced by the offense of the home team. We had a great offense last year and shot Comerica up the list. Texas traditionally has fielded expensive, high power players that also increase their own park factors.

Texas IS more of a hitters park than Comerica, but Comerica has been top 9 for the last three years.

 

[Rebbiv]

http://www.parkfactors.com/DET

 

[spockmaster]

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/DET/attend.shtml

http://www.baseball-reference.com/teams/TEX/attend.shtml


depends what site you look at for park factors, though I dont think anyone should argue that copa is more of a hitters park than the texas bandbox.

 

[turok]

http://www.fangraphs.com/fantasy/fielder-headed-to-homer-haven-right/

 

[turok]

Rangers ballclub sent e-mail notices to season ticket holders this morning with picture of traded Ian Kinsler...whoops!!

pic.twitter.com/eJnTfusYMG

 

[mhughes0021]

So many things incorrect with this post I don't know where to start.

how?

upgrade at 1b is wrong? so fielder is better than miggy? ur wrong..

upgrade over infante is wrong? Kinsler isn't better than infante? debatable but I think ur wrong again

castellanos isn't a defensive upgrade over miggy? you guys bitched all year how miggy wasn't any good at 3b and our infield sucked defensively....so now we make some changes for the better defensively and we bitch about that too? lol

the only other thing I said in my post was fielder had his chance...sucked...and its time to move on. Welp, you can put stat after stat up here how wrong I am.....but I thought fielder sucked for us. He had the easiest job in the majors.....to hit after miggy....and his numbers weren't that great and as far as im concerned choked big time whenever we needed him to get an important hit (including the entire 2013 playoffs). Soooooo....buh bye princess fatty.

 

[biggunsbob]

how?

upgrade at 1b is wrong? so fielder is better than miggy? ur wrong..

upgrade over infante is wrong? Kinsler isn't better than infante? debatable but I think ur wrong again

castellanos isn't a defensive upgrade over miggy? you guys bitched all year how miggy wasn't any good at 3b and our infield sucked defensively....so now we make some changes for the better defensively and we bitch about that too? lol

the only other thing I said in my post was fielder had his chance...sucked...and its time to move on. Welp, you can put stat after stat up here how wrong I am.....but I thought fielder sucked for us. He had the easiest job in the majors.....to hit after miggy....and his numbers weren't that great and as far as im concerned choked big time whenever we needed him to get an important hit (including the entire 2013 playoffs). Soooooo....buh bye princess fatty.

you are so right...Once Fat boy was so nonchalant about losing the Boston series that was it.. It was time for him to go.. Glad DD had some balls to try and rework the team..
We have to get more athletic.. Prince had a chance to step up when Miggy was hurt and he failed... He failed the pervious post season... Bye Bye...
Lucky we found suckers to take him...

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Rumor has it Cano took a charter jet into Willow Run and met with the Tigers today. That started some rumors that we may flip Kinsler, but I just can't see it happening.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

McLain was speculating that some personal stuff will come out on Fielder real soon, then threw out Garcia's name as being part of it. Basically pointing to the affair rumor, but not saying it outright. There was a story with the audio on Deadspin.com today.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Deadspin McLain story... http://deadspin.com/denny-mclain-says-domestic-issues-drove-prince-fielde-1469185897

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Cano story... http://m.detnews.com/topstories/article?a=2013311220115&f=1207

 

[Thumb]

how?

upgrade at 1b is wrong? so fielder is better than miggy? ur wrong..

upgrade over infante is wrong? Kinsler isn't better than infante? debatable but I think ur wrong again

castellanos isn't a defensive upgrade over miggy? you guys bitched all year how miggy wasn't any good at 3b and our infield sucked defensively....so now we make some changes for the better defensively and we bitch about that too? lol

the only other thing I said in my post was fielder had his chance...sucked...and its time to move on. Welp, you can put stat after stat up here how wrong I am.....but I thought fielder sucked for us. He had the easiest job in the majors.....to hit after miggy....and his numbers weren't that great and as far as im concerned choked big time whenever we needed him to get an important hit (including the entire 2013 playoffs). Soooooo....buh bye princess fatty.

(A)Cabrera has yet to move to 1B. (B)Castellanos has yet to make the team, let alone start at 3rd. (C)Kinsler is a minimal upgrade at best over Infante, and might not be at all. Cabrera was not great at 3B but I never bitched about it, he more than made up for any runs he cost by a large margin, I'd rather he stayed at 3B myself.

You think Fielder sucked, well then you're stupid. His 2012 numbers were fantastic, and last year was a down year, and he was still top 10 at his position....hardly sucked.

So yeah, basically everything you said is either untrue (as of yet) or just kneejerk-reaction bullshit.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Kinsler vs Infante are opinions and that's okay. Personally I'd take Kinsler, not looking at the money of course. Mostly because he can take a walk.

Knee-jerk reaction maybe but, thumb, you're doing the same thing. Calling this a bad trade, if Miggy does move to 1st, Nick C. at 3B and we use the added money for a good LF - does the trade look better or not?

In the end Kinsler might suck, Prince becomes MVP etc. but I like having the flexibility we do now that Prince is no longer here.

 

[Thumb]

Kinsler vs Infante are opinions and that's okay. Personally I'd take Kinsler, not looking at the money of course. Mostly because he can take a walk.

Knee-jerk reaction maybe but, thumb, you're doing the same thing. Calling this a bad trade, if Miggy does move to 1st, Nick C. at 3B and we use the added money for a good LF - does the trade look better or not?

In the end Kinsler might suck, Prince becomes MVP etc. but I like having the flexibility we do now that Prince is no longer here.

Short answer, no.

I'm not against trading Fielder. I'm not even against trading Fielder for Kinsler, though I don't care for him. My problem is we gave up far more then we got in return, we should have at least gotten a throw in player, a bullpen arm or a mid level prospect and I'd be okay with it. Regardless of losing the Prince contract, it doesn't help us right now. We are currently at 39 on the 40 man roster and only 11 million under last year's totals with the arbitration raises, the 8 million relief from Fielder and the losses of FA salaries. We now have 2 holes, LF, and 3B/1B/DH depending on who plays where.

Castellanos is not the answer yet, not at 3B and not in LF, neither is Dirks.

And Kinsler vs. Infante is largely opinion, but couple Omar's very similar production except baserunning and drawing walks, at a much cheaper salary, and I'd rather have Infante if I had a choice between the two.

So when people say things like "now we have money to extend Max (bad idea anyways) or sign FA's" that we all thought we could have signed before the trade too....they are not coming to the realization that we haven't saved anything yet, and wont until Kinsler is off the books seeing as how we're paying him (including the money swapped to Texas in the trade) almost the same money just for less years; I have to wonder how objectively they are looking at it, or are they just being morons who say good riddance to a fat ass like hughes and miserTom keep saying.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I agree on the Max signing and I once not long ago was in the camp, no cap not my money spend what you want Illich. Not anymore. Granted we'll most likely still have this payroll this year and beyond. But maybe it can be spread out a little with more flexibility.

If we wanted to trade Kinsler down the road, especially with his current front loaded contract we can. Of anything that I like with trading Fielder it's the flexibility. So money, in the end we don't save anything by throwing in 30m, signing free agents etc. But IMO, we have a chance to better without Fielder because of more flexibility.

 

[grandy]

I'm not against trading Fielder. I'm not even against trading Fielder for Kinsler, though I don't care for him. My problem is we gave up far more then we got in return, we should have at least gotten a throw in player, a bullpen arm or a mid level prospect and I'd be okay with it.

Obviously we'll never know...but what if this is the best deal they could've gotten for Prince? What if they asked Texas for more but Texas refused? If the Tigers were determined to move Prince, I don't know if better options were out there, that's an awfully long and bad contract to move. I have a feeling Detroit wanted to get rid of Prince more than Texas wanted to acquire Prince and Texas used that to their advantage.

 

[tomdalton22]

(A)Cabrera has yet to move to 1B. (B)Castellanos has yet to make the team, let alone start at 3rd. (C)Kinsler is a minimal upgrade at best over Infante, and might not be at all. Cabrera was not great at 3B but I never bitched about it, he more than made up for any runs he cost by a large margin, I'd rather he stayed at 3B myself.

You think Fielder sucked, well then you're stupid. His 2012 numbers were fantastic, and last year was a down year, and he was still top 10 at his position....hardly sucked.

So yeah, basically everything you said is either untrue (as of yet) or just kneejerk-reaction bullshit.

Fielder was not top 10 at his position. He was 12th in OPS and 19th in WAR. I know a lot of people don't like WAR (I think it is a flawed stat as well but it does have some value) but at least it does take into consideration defense.

So he was in the 12-19 range at his position and was the highest paid 1B in MLB.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Top 10, top 5 - doesn't really matter. Based on salary he unperformed big time. Now it could have just been an off year. I suspect it was, and will likely improve by being in Texas, no distraction / Garcia etc.

 

[Thumb]

Top 10, top 5 - doesn't really matter. Based on salary he unperformed big time. Now it could have just been an off year. I suspect it was, and will likely improve by being in Texas, no distraction / Garcia etc.

Based on salary Justin Verlander underperformed big time too.

It's irrelevant, down years happen. I'm not justifying his contract, but there are only a few highly paid players who actually earn their money.