Free Agent News

[dubbsco]

Well truth be told the days of the traditional center (ie Shaq) are all but extinct. Almost everyone on the floor needs to be able to stretch the court, at least out to the free throw line. Monroe can't even do that unfortunately.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Well truth be told the days of the traditional center (ie Shaq) are all but extinct. Almost everyone on the floor needs to be able to stretch the court, at least out to the free throw line. Monroe can't even do that unfortunately.

Howard, Drummond, Jefferson, Cousins, Marc Gasol. Their mid-range game isn't what they do. None of them shoot the three. Prime requirement for my Center is defense. Rebounds and blocked shots. He can get his put backs and create his shot close-in as able. Otherwise I want to run plays for my PF if I'm going to the post for more space to operate.

 

[dubbsco]

Marc Gasol can shoot my friend. He's a threat from mid-range.

The game today is just so different. Big men are being asked to be able to step back and hit the three. Monroe is definitely a throw-back player, he does the dirty work and is pretty solid around the basket. Sadly, he's not athletic, he's plodding on the court and can't really threaten defenses. I like the guy, but there's just too much clutter in the Pistons' frontcourt with guys that play close to the basket but can't shoot (Drummond, Monroe, Smith).

 

[tinselwolverine]

Marc Gasol can shoot my friend.

What did your friend do to you? Does he owe you money and he's not paying it back?

And why Marc Gasol? I thought he was a basketball player; I didn't know he did hits on the side, too.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Marc Gasol can shoot my friend. He's a threat from mid-range.

The game today is just so different. Big men are being asked to be able to step back and hit the three. Monroe is definitely a throw-back player, he does the dirty work and is pretty solid around the basket. Sadly, he's not athletic, he's plodding on the court and can't really threaten defenses. I like the guy, but there's just too much clutter in the Pistons' frontcourt with guys that play close to the basket but can't shoot (Drummond, Monroe, Smith).

I like Gasol but statistically he shoots less than 20% from 10-16ft he shoots less than 15% from 16+. 35% from 3-10ft.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/g/gasolma01.html

Bosh is 29% from 16+ but only 16% from 3-10ft

If you take a look at the stats for Centers last season there weren't many taking 3's at all. In fact only three took enough shots to qualify.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/player/_/stat/scoring-per-game/position/centers

I like Monroe, he passes so well for a big man but his lack of defensive alacrity confounds me. Just seems to react slow.

 

[dubbsco]

Man those stats surprise me, every time I've seen Memphis play I saw him stick mid range shots like it was going out of style. Thought he was a better mid-range guy than that.

There's no doubt about that. He lets guys drive past him all day every day. I think he's a solid big man who'll give you what you ask from him, but a max player he is not.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Man those stats surprise me, every time I've seen Memphis play I saw him stick mid range shots like it was going out of style. Thought he was a better mid-range guy than that.

Crazy huh? I had already typed out that I agreed with you because I'm a Gasol fan. I put him on the list because I saw he didn't shoot the three. I didn't drill-down until you challenged the assertion then I had to prove it to myself.

Problem is you're watching him play the Pistons...

 

[dubbsco]

Yeah that's true, but the GM now seems to be making more realistic deals. Everyone was up in arms about Meeks, but the contracts being given out are ridiculous. Bosh's is something like 110 million for 5 years??!! They basically signed a tall sharpshooter for 20 a year.

I really like the Augustin deal. He was instrumental in Chicago's season last year off the bench.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

The real issue is defense. Big men inherently provide more defensive value because they guard the most valuable area (right around the basket). Smith actually rated as our best big man in several statistics simply because he is a good defender. Monroe and Drummond are both negative defenders-Monroe because of his athletic limitations, Drummond because of his poor positioning. The hope is that SVG can turn Drummond into Dwight (even Dwight didn't become a the defender we know now until his 4th season, his first under SVG). But until that point, there's just a lot of coaching that needs to be instilled in the rest of the team.

We can worry about offense all day, but the fact is our offense is invariably going to be poor until we get better wings (similar to big men on defense, wings inherently provide more offensive value because of spacing and rules that favor driving to the basket). Consider for a moment that we had exactly one (1) non-big with a scoring efficiency at or above league average. That was Kyle Singler. Ideally, Meeks and KCP can get to that point and Augustin can maintain last year's solid efficiency. But that may just never be enough with Jennings around being Jennings.

 

[dubbsco]

If SVG can somehow rein in Jennings and make him not such a freaking headcase player, he could be really good. The kid is still like 24 years old. He has massive amounts of potential.

The talent on this team is there. As much as I cannot stand Josh Smith and Jennings, those guys can be great. Drummond is already close to there. Monroe is what he is. I think Augustin is highly underrated in this league, and hopefully Meeks will add some spacing to the court.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

If I was coach or GM of the Pistons I would see three banners hanging up and realize the reason for each of them started with defense.

Good point about Howard taking some time. Drummond has innate tendencies required to be a plus defender he needs coaching.

I like the direction the team took this offseason. The signings were modest but they showed a direction.

I feel like Monroe is in a holding pattern waiting for Kevin Love to get traded. That sounds silly at this point though. Monroe needs to realize he is a 12.5M per year player at best. The problem is they are paying Smith 14M and I'm sure that pisses Monroe off especially since everyone is talking max for Drummond already. There is pride and business at play. I think Monroe may overplay this one.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

Jennings has been in the league for 5 years. He IS young, and there's nothing stopping him from making improvements, but I think historically there's little reason to expect it. Keep in mind that Brandon Jennings has NEVER been an efficient scorer in the NBA. And it's not like he's been mollycoddled all his career. He's played under demanding coaches, and it just never changed anything. Jennings is a very poor finisher around the rim and overall a generally below average shooter. That's not a coaching issue, that's a player issue. It's exceptionally difficult to be an effective scorer when you are neither a reliable slasher or shooter.

As for Monroe, I actually think he's just doing what is best right now. We can say he is a 12.5 million per year player, but that's based entirely on previous seasons and monetary structures. The cap is poised to explode over the next few years. Guys who are worth 12.5 million in 2013 and 2014 could easily be worth 15 million in 2015 or 2016. Monroe has seen lesser player get more money already. He also knows that signing a long term deal now with any concessions could be throwing away money when the cap jumps. This is a rather unique time, where agents know the cap is going up significantly. Unlike previous years where it could take 2 full contracts to make up for the money lost in just one year at the qualifying offer, now agents see max contracts rising significantly and 2nd tier guys making upwards of 3 million more per year just by waiting.

I think in the end the best case scenario is a double sign and trade - Monroe for Bledsoe. Phoenix needs a center that can rebound. Detroit needs a guard that can defend and create. Both sides win. Because that's such a logical trade, it probably won't ever happen. Instead, Phoenix and Detroit will eventually get their RFAs on less than max but short term contracts (3 years), have trouble juggling minutes to the point that both players lose some trade value, and eventually sell them off midseason or next offseason for lesser players.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Jennings has been in the league for 5 years. He IS young, and there's nothing stopping him from making improvements, but I think historically there's little reason to expect it. Keep in mind that Brandon Jennings has NEVER been an efficient scorer in the NBA. And it's not like he's been mollycoddled all his career. He's played under demanding coaches, and it just never changed anything. Jennings is a very poor finisher around the rim and overall a generally below average shooter. That's not a coaching issue, that's a player issue. It's exceptionally difficult to be an effective scorer when you are neither a reliable slasher or shooter.

As for Monroe, I actually think he's just doing what is best right now. We can say he is a 12.5 million per year player, but that's based entirely on previous seasons and monetary structures. The cap is poised to explode over the next few years. Guys who are worth 12.5 million in 2013 and 2014 could easily be worth 15 million in 2015 or 2016. Monroe has seen lesser player get more money already. He also knows that signing a long term deal now with any concessions could be throwing away money when the cap jumps. This is a rather unique time, where agents know the cap is going up significantly. Unlike previous years where it could take 2 full contracts to make up for the money lost in just one year at the qualifying offer, now agents see max contracts rising significantly and 2nd tier guys making upwards of 3 million more per year just by waiting.

I think in the end the best case scenario is a double sign and trade - Monroe for Bledsoe. Phoenix needs a center that can rebound. Detroit needs a guard that can defend and create. Both sides win. Because that's such a logical trade, it probably won't ever happen. Instead, Phoenix and Detroit will eventually get their RFAs on less than max but short term contracts (3 years), have trouble juggling minutes to the point that both players lose some trade value, and eventually sell them off midseason or next offseason for lesser players.

Well said. Jennings is an enigma to me. Why he wouldn't watch Chauncey Billups DVD's is beyond me. I thing Augustine will be positive for his development.

I'll admit the Monroe contract is the most intriguing thing the Pistons have had in the last three years for me. This is a poor man's version of what the fans involved in the Lebron "decision" must have felt like.

 

[dubbsco]

South, I don't think you can point to the rafters in the Palace and say, "This is how you need to win to earn more titles." For one, the Bad Boys, for as much as I love them, got away with a TON of stuff that just doesn't happen anymore. Teams can't win knocking players on their rear anymore. The 2004 title was an absolute perfect storm with everything coming together perfectly.

It's a superstar-driven league. You have to have those guys that can put a team on their back. Until Detroit tanks a season and gets a franchise mover, or Drummond turns into one, it's going to be awhile until they get back to the top.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

South, I don't think you can point to the rafters in the Palace and say, "This is how you need to win to earn more titles." For one, the Bad Boys, for as much as I love them, got away with a TON of stuff that just doesn't happen anymore. Teams can't win knocking players on their rear anymore. The 2004 title was an absolute perfect storm with everything coming together perfectly.

It's a superstar-driven league. You have to have those guys that can put a team on their back. Until Detroit tanks a season and gets a franchise mover, or Drummond turns into one, it's going to be awhile until they get back to the top.

San Antonio still plays Piston basketball in my opinion. The Pistons Championships were reflections of their coach's visions and the player's determination. They started with defense. Regardless of rule changes after (because of?) them they played in the confines just as this team needs to do better than any team in the league. Defense frustrates superstars. It always has and always will.

Pistons need a defensive minded wing more than ever to piss off Lebron.

I think SVG can surprise some people with this roster. We'll wait a few months for predictions though.

 

[dubbsco]

As much as I would like to compare the Spurs to the Pistons, I can't. While San Antonio is a darn good defensive team, that's where the comparisons stop. They have superstars (Parker, Duncan, Ginobili, Leonard in a year or so). They are so much more offensively gifted than the Pistons. While the Pistons did play a brand of team basketball, the Spurs move the ball better than the 04 Pistons could even dream. The Pistons relied on lock-down defense, mostly coming from the help-side with Big Ben. They didn't have guys you can give the ball to and just say "get me some points." Hamilton had to come off screens. Ben couldn't score. Billups was more of a big-shot artist with his timing vs being a creator. Tayshaun was an elite role-player.

I love the 04 Pistons but the Spurs in 2014 were the most well-oiled machine I've ever seen.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

As much as I would like to compare the Spurs to the Pistons, I can't. While San Antonio is a darn good defensive team, that's where the comparisons stop. They have superstars (Parker, Duncan, Ginobili, Leonard in a year or so). They are so much more offensively gifted than the Pistons. While the Pistons did play a brand of team basketball, the Spurs move the ball better than the 04 Pistons could even dream.

We beat them in 2005! That was a bullshit foul call on Ben near mid-court. And COVER HORRY!!! (my old SN from ESPN boards)

The Pistons were on the cusp of continuing something special but Joe blew it up by trading Chauncey. A moment I won't ever forget.

It's not a direct correlation I mean the team is built around a team concept from 1 through 9 with dedication to fundamental basketball skills. Chauncey, Rip, Rasheed were a damn good trio for a few years throw in a couple of defensive superstars and that team wasn't lucky to go to the ECF that many times in a row.

San Antonio took it to another level and have kept expanding beyond what I thought was possible though. It is because they have (and had) better players for sure.

 

[dubbsco]

Well it helps that they have one of the best guys to ever coach the game. They took what the Pistons did and were able to integrate the next batch of stars. What Joe did was sign guys like Gordon and Charlie V to outlandish contracts as soon as he had some cap freedom, basically turning the franchise into a dark hole since that run.

 

[SouthOfMackinac]

Well it helps that they have one of the best guys to ever coach the game. They took what the Pistons did and were able to integrate the next batch of stars. What Joe did was sign guys like Gordon and Charlie V to outlandish contracts as soon as he had some cap freedom, basically turning the franchise into a dark hole since that run.

It's the difference between Pop and the Carpet-bagger.

It was over when Joe signed Flip.

I almost got in a fight with a friend because he was convinced I was an idiot and Ben Gordon and Chuckie V were gonna be AWESOME! I told him I'd never seen worse signings in my life as a Piston fan.

 

[dubbsco]

I was absolutely stunned about 30 seconds ago to find out that Jennings was top 10 in assists last year. If they can get him to stop jacking up 30 shots a game and become a true facilitator, it could work out.