Game 8: Lions @ Vikings Thread

[Mitchrapp]

correct. The Lions are a total mess. Almost no talent on the defensive side of the ball, terrible coaching, and a bad offense.

Finally, you agree with what we have been saying all year (actually, past several years)

Read between the lions. Its his way of saying Matty Stafford is a good QB and it's none of is his fault.

 

[LKP]

correct. The Lions are a total mess. Almost no talent on the defensive side of the ball, terrible coaching, and a bad offense.

Finally, you agree with what we have been saying all year (actually, past several years)

There is some talent there (Flowers, Hand, Okudah, Collins, Walker Harmon, Okwara, Trufant and AO). Shelton has talent too but never but it altogether.

Some bad coaching not changing enough at the right time. Some injuries have been big. Secondary hurt then Flowers hurt now once secondary gets healthy.

We'll see how they do the next four weeks

 

[tomdalton22]

There is some talent there (Flowers, Hand, Okudah, Collins, Walker Harmon, Okwara, Trufant and AO). Shelton has talent too but never but it altogether.

Some bad coaching not changing enough at the right time. Some injuries have been big. Secondary hurt then Flowers hurt now once secondary gets healthy.

We'll see how they do the next four weeks

Okudah is the only one that has any promise. The rest are average at best.

 

[tigermud]

As bad as the Lions have been, the next 3 games are against really bad teams. 2-6 Washington and 3-6 Carolina should both have their 3rd string QBs playing. Then they have the 2-6 Texans.

The playoffs are out of the question at this point. It's time for the Lions to look towards the future. At least they have some really good building blocks to build around.

Players like....:hmm:

Carolina has McCaffery back that's a loss
Lions can't stop the pass for shit Texans game is a loss.

 

[LKP]

Okudah is the only one that has any promise. The rest are average at best.

Flowers, Harmon is 8th and 3rd best in league grades respectively. Harmon is FA next year though
Collins 18th of all LBs
Romeo Okwara above average with good pass rush
Hand above average but took a step back in pass rush. Good run D. And a good 2018
Davis actually grades really well this year but more limited snaps
Ragland has been average on a cheap deal

Walker, Tavai, Harris, Christian Jones, Nick Williams, Shelton, Kearse having some issues.

Okudah lots of potential but rough rookie year with no pass rush helping him. Some injuries mixed in there too. AO average grade but potential too

Trufant been hurt almost all year but finally came back and had a good game. Will be cut for cap savings next year though

Major changes will happen for scheme reasons, cap reasons and impending FAs on defense. We'll see how they perform in the final 8. Better learn to stop the run. It was good for like 3-4 weeks in a row then terrible again on Sunday

 

[Mitchrapp]

I thought this was rather funny..


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TaaAugERSa8

 

[boogerlovejoy]

There is some talent there (Flowers, Hand, Okudah, Collins, Walker Harmon, Okwara, Trufant and AO). Shelton has talent too but never but it altogether.

Some bad coaching not changing enough at the right time. Some injuries have been big. Secondary hurt then Flowers hurt now once secondary gets healthy.

We'll see how they do the next four weeks

Hand? According to Pro Football Reference......Hand is yet to record a QB hit in 2020. He has no sacks and 1 tackle for loss. He has played in all 8 games.

Where's the talent?

 

[tomdalton22]

I almost forgot about Everson Griffen running his mouth about how the MN "disrespected" him by calling him a good player, not a great player. He was going to "show him" during the game on Sunday.

How'd that work out?

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I almost forgot about Everson Griffen running his mouth about how the MN "disrespected" him by calling him a good player, not a great player. He was going to "show him" during the game on Sunday.

How'd that work out?

Not good. Didn?t even notice he played.

I am convinced that every player we have is better than what they?ve shown this year. The more I watch these games the clearer it is to see that our scheme is so incredibly bad that I bet other teams OC?s laugh watching the tape.

We show our coverage easily. We put ourselves in terrible matchups. We take ZERO chances and bring very little pressure. When we do, we have LB?s and S blitzing the same fucking gap....neutralizing one of them. We have very little defensive team speed. It?s basic coaching 101. I don?t care what level of football you?re coaching.....or even if you?re playing a video game....when you run the same thing over and over it?s incredibly easy to play against.

Fat Patricia can preach ?fundamentals? all he wants....but when crossing patterns get open 90% of the time.....do something different. Show man and play zone. Show zone and play man. Pass off crossing routes. Blitz and have your coverage shade inside. Take a chance.

Or.....do the same thing over and over and over expecting different results......and then blame fundamentals.

 

[LKP]

Hand? According to Pro Football Reference......Hand is yet to record a QB hit in 2020. He has no sacks and 1 tackle for loss. He has played in all 8 games.

Where's the talent?

37th out of 117 Interior Defenders which is well above average. 15th in run defense but 95th in pass rush. He has graded well in pass rush and overall in 2018 too (15th out of 112). 2019 hurt. Talent in run defense and some pass rush. Plus cheap rookie deal through next season. He's an asset for the team.

 

[tomdalton22]

37th out of 117 Interior Defenders which is well above average. 15th in run defense but 95th in pass rush. He has graded well in pass rush and overall in 2018 too (15th out of 112). 2019 hurt. Talent in run defense and some pass rush. Plus cheap rookie deal through next season. He's an asset for the team.

since about 1/2 of the teams play a 3-4 defense, there are only 48 starting interior defensive linemen.

37th out of 48 isn't above average.

15th in run defense is good, but in today's NFL teams pass more than they run. Only 3 teams run more often than they pass (Ravens 53%, Vikings 51%, NE 51%). Overall, the league is about 58% pass & 42% run. So 42% of the time he is the 15th best interior defender and 58% of the time he is the 95th best (out of 48 starters).

That's not above average.

 

[LKP]

Lol its 37 out of 117. They count nose tackles and 3 4 des as interior defenders too since they have similar roles. Hand plays dt and de too

Hand is good in run defense..has been good in pass rush. He is above average interior defender. Its a fact. Stop trying to underrate him. He can do more in pass rush but thats not his main role now..flowers, okwaras, griffen and sometimes jones/tavai/ragland are supposed to bring pass rush.

Hand can improve in pass rush

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Lol its 37 out of 117. They count nose tackles and 3 4 des as interior defenders too since they have similar roles. Hand plays dt and de too

Hand is good in run defense..has been good in pass rush. He is above average interior defender. Its a fact. Stop trying to underrate him. He can do more in pass rush but thats not his main role now..flowers, okwaras, griffen and sometimes jones/tavai/ragland are supposed to bring pass rush.

Hand can improve in pass rush

Being a slightly above average run defender and a terrible pass rusher is as useful to the 2020 Detroit Lions as a 6'5" WR with a 3.9 second 40 time.........and no arms.

Don't mean shit.

1 tackle for loss. 9 solo tackles. 8 games.

WOW!!

 

[tomdalton22]

Lol its 37 out of 117. They count nose tackles and 3 4 des as interior defenders too since they have similar roles. Hand plays dt and de too

Hand is good in run defense..has been good in pass rush. He is above average interior defender. Its a fact. Stop trying to underrate him. He can do more in pass rush but thats not his main role now..flowers, okwaras, griffen and sometimes jones/tavai/ragland are supposed to bring pass rush.

Hand can improve in pass rush

so, if about 1/2 of the teams play a 3/4 they count all 3 linemen as interior defensive linemen and the 2 DTs in a 4/3. That would be 80 interior starters. Of course, that would leave only 32 "exterior" DE starters to be ranked, which is unlikely.

but, 15th out of 80 is good. 95th out of 80 starters is bad.

Overall, 37 out of 80 starters MIGHT be considered above average but when you consider that teams pass more than they run, he goes back to average at best and more likely slightly below average.

 

[LKP]

so, if about 1/2 of the teams play a 3/4 they count all 3 linemen as interior defensive linemen and the 2 DTs in a 4/3. That would be 80 interior starters. Of course, that would leave only 32 "exterior" DE starters to be ranked, which is unlikely.

but, 15th out of 80 is good. 95th out of 80 starters is bad.

Overall, 37 out of 80 starters MIGHT be considered above average but when you consider that teams pass more than they run, he goes back to average at best and more likely slightly below average.

It's 117. Backups log enough snaps to get counted and all 4-3 Dts, 3-4 Des and 3-4 Nts is alot of people in the group. 37 is above average out of 117. Hand is good in run defense and needs work in pass rush this year (but has been good in 2018 in pass rush). Overall it's above average. On a cheap deal. He is helping the team, has talent but can do more.

Flowers and Hand should be helping this team in 2021 with a new coach. Penisini is a backup young player. Everyone else should be on notice in front 7. Romeo Okwara is playing well but will be a UFA. Depends on the scheme and price tag if he is brought back. Collins is actually good but has some really bad plays too. Will depend on scheme if they move on from him in 2021.

Shelton and Nick Williams were backloaded 2 year deals. They should be cut for cap space with a new regime. Same with Desmond Trufant possibly

 

[byco42]

I remember a Lions' DL named Larry Hand. 13 seasons, all with the Lions. College: App. State.

Man, I love these UNIS.

 

[mhughes0021]

37th out of 117 Interior Defenders which is well above average. 15th in run defense but 95th in pass rush. He has graded well in pass rush and overall in 2018 too (15th out of 112). 2019 hurt. Talent in run defense and some pass rush. Plus cheap rookie deal through next season. He's an asset for the team.

Hes not an interior defender. He plays End. Your data source is dumb.

 

[LKP]

He plays dt and de. And end in 3 4 looks with a jack is also is considered interior defender responsibilties per pff

Also his 70.1 grade would be 28th ranked end out of 111 edge defenders. So even better than 37 out of 117

So lets go ahead and grade him as an end..good player then

 

[tomdalton22]

I wonder where Matt's 68.4 grade places him?

It looks like the top 3 are

AR 93.8
Wilson 93.1
Brady 90.9

My guess is Matt falls outside the top 20, but that's just a guess. Certainly not elite

Daniel Jones 75.6
Cousins 80.9
Nick Foles 68.7
Baker Mayfield 67.5

Looks like he is playing like Baker Mayfield, Foles & Danile Jones. Worse than Kirk Cousins.

 

[LKP]

Dont use pff for qbs. One position way too complicated..matt has had some costly picks but does way more good than bad.

Run game, weapon separation and better pass pro would help