Gio Gonzalez and Martin Prado

[Thumb]

Whats all the DY 2.0 shit?

He's the same piece of shit he always was.

 

[spockmaster]

i think they mean delmon vs dmitri. not sure though.

 

[stonecold2136]

97.1

i dont think id believe 97.1 if they said rain was wet.

The Original source is Jim Bowden this rumor has legs and is legit

James Goodwin Bowden IV (born 18 May 1961 in Boston, Massachusetts [1]) is a Baseball Insider for ESPN. He writes a blog for ESPN.com titled "The GM's Office" and is a co-host of SiriusXM's "Inside Pitch" on MLB Network Radio. He previously was a Host and Co-Host on Fox Sports Radio, a baseball analyst for FoxSports.com and a Baseball Insider for both the Los Angeles Dodgers and Los Angeles Angels for Fox Sports West. He has held positions of Senior Vice President and General Manager for both the Cincinnati Reds and Washington Nationals. On October 16, 1992 he became the youngest general manager in baseball history. He was named MLB Executive of the Year by Baseball America in 1999. Bowden's teams finished in first place in 1994 and 1995. Jim has also worked in television for ESPN, Fox Sports West as well as local television and radio stations in both Cincinnati and Washington D.C.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I'd be almost willing to trade Turner for Gonzales.

 

[Thumb]

Mitch[/color]]I'd be almost willing to trade Turner for Gonzales.

So would I.

Gio may not be great, but Turner is an unknown, who could end up the next Andrew Miller.

A Tigers rotation with Verlander, Fister, Scherzer, Gonlalez, and Porcello is much better than a Tigers rotation of Verlander, Fister, Scherzer, Porcello and Turner/Oliver/Below.

 

[mjsb2]

If we did these two moves then signed Cespedes or Beltran for LF, we'd be set.

Jackson - CF
Beltran/Cespedes - LF
Cabrera - 1B
VMart - DH
Boesch - RF
Peralta - SS
Avila - C
Prado - 2B
Cringe - 3B

Bench - Raburn, Kelly, Santiago, Laird

Rotation - JV, Fister, Gio, Max, Porcello

Pen - Balester, Coke, Al Al, Schlereth, Dotel, Benoit, Valverde

Wouldn't touch Beltran...unless it's a short deal. Unless they can pull a starting LF, I would not trade DY 2.0....I just have images of Raburn flinging that ball over the fence.

There is no debating the fact that Ryan Raburn is a better defensive player and would convert more batted balls into outs than Delmon Young would in LF.

 

[Mitchrapp]

[quote="Mitch":kqi5rdfh]I'd be almost willing to trade Turner for Gonzales.

So would I.

Gio may not be great, but Turner is an unknown, who could end up the next Andrew Miller.

A Tigers rotation with Verlander, Fister, Scherzer, Gonlalez, and Porcello is much better than a Tigers rotation of Verlander, Fister, Scherzer, Porcello and Turner/Oliver/Below.[/quote:kqi5rdfh]

I know he's only 20 but he didn't pitch very well when he had spot starts last season. I've always want the now rather than the later. Assuming the now is young which Gonzalez is.

Honestly, I don't like his walk totals but he seems to get through that. I look at his 4.5 per 9 innings walk total and change it to 7 innings I can live with 3.5 a game.

 

[kalinecountry]

http://danny-knobler.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8590096/33858222
Tigers, Red Sox among teams in on Gio Gonzalez.
from dannyknobler at cbssports

 

[kalinecountry]

If Tigers don't get Gio, they'll likely try to find a veteran Penny-type for 5th spot in rotation.
knobler

 

[Mitchrapp]

Bring Penny back, sweet.

 

[buddyboy2121]

Mitch[/color]]Bring Penny back, sweet.

Would rather have Saunders

 

[buddyboy2121]

KalineCountry[/color]]http://danny-knobler.blogs.cbssports.com/mcc/blogs/entry/8590096/33858222
Tigers, Red Sox among teams in on Gio Gonzalez.
from dannyknobler at cbssports

Get it done DD

 

[Mitchrapp]

[quote="Mitch":zvrd3jpn]Bring Penny back, sweet.

Would rather have Saunders[/quote:zvrd3jpn]

Me too or Jackson even.

 

[kalinecountry]

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2011/12/the-latest-on-gio-gonzalez.html
Latest on Gio Gonzalez.
from mlbtraderumors

One more thing to remember about Tigers: If they don't trade Turner (for Gio), Turner could figure into fifth-starter mix.
knobler

 

[Mitchrapp]

A's GM Billy Beane in enamored with Tigers' top pitching prospect Jacob Turner, and Detroit is willing to move him for Gonzalez. They balked at request for Castellanos and Smyly in addition to Turner . Wow, that's a bit too much.

 

[turok]

Having an Inge, Jackson and Raburn types on the team would be okay, along with the lack of a LH #2-3 SP and a LH or SH IF/OF one of whom can bat leadoff and hit no less than ~290, BUT this isn't 1997, and the Tigers have a team that is on the very cusp of having all of the pieces necessary to win a WS or two within the next several years.

Would be a real crying shame if the Tigers brass/owner doesn't make the necessary couple of more moves to take advantage of this unique situation, for a "mid-market" club that is located in a economically declining region of the nation, that might eventually turn it into a much small(er) market, by the end of this decade if not sooner, but they just might whiff on their window of opportunity, we will see.

 

[buddyboy2121]

Having an Inge, Jackson and Raburn types on the team would be okay, along with the lack of a LH #2-3 SP and a LH or SH IF/OF one of whom can bat leadoff and hit no less than ~290, BUT this isn't 1997, and the Tigers have a team that is on the very cusp of having all of the pieces necessary to win a WS or two within the next several years.

Would be a real crying shame if the Tigers brass/owner doesn't make the necessary couple of more moves to take advantage of this unique situation, for a "mid-market" club that is located in a economically declining region of the nation, that might eventually turn it into a much small(er) market, by the end of this decade if not sooner, but they just might whiff on their window of opportunity, we will see.

If we can get a couple WS titles in the next decade we could become a big market team

 

[Rebbiv]

Verlander's first two MLB starts

11.3 IP 15 H 9 ER 5 BB 7 K 7.15 ERA 1.77 WHIP

Turner's first two MLB starts

9.6 IP 10 H 8 ER 3 BB 8 K 7.45 ERA 1.34 WHIP

Greg Maddux first five MLB starts

30.0 IP 43 H 18 ER 11 BB 19 SO 5.40 ERA 1.80 WHIP


Small sample sizes


Now Minor League Stats before age 23:

Verlander 0.90 WHIP 5.23 SO/BB 10.3 SO/G

Baugh 1.09 WHIP 4.31 SO/BB 9.7 SO/G

Turner 1.14 WHIP 3.66 SO/BB 7.7 SO/G

Porcello 1.19 WHIP 2.12 SO/BB 5.4 SO/G

A. Miller 1.19 WHIP 2.69 SO/BB 7.6 SO/G

Maddux 1.19 WHIP 2.06 SO/BB 5.7 SO/G

Wheatland 1.25 WHIP 3.32 SO/BB 8.1 SO/G

Gonzalez 1.26 WHIP 2.54 SO/BB 10.3 SO/G

Sleeth 1.39 WHIP 2.35 SO/BB 7.4 SO/G

Greisinger 1.45 WHIP 1.87 SO/BB 5.8 SO/G



Baugh, Wheatland and Sleeth, all, had arm troubles in the minors. It is more about bad luck, then not living up to prospect status.

Minor league stats for pitchers can be predictive. Most people understand WHIP (under 1.20 is preferred). SO/BB Ratio above 2.00 is good, but above 3.00 is preferred at the minor level. Anything above 4.00 is outstanding. Next, SO/G shows somewhat the quality of stuff. Anything above 7.0 is good, anything above 8.0 is outstanding.

So, if you evaluate pitchers with these in mind, Baugh and Wheatland projected to be a #1 or #2 (before they got hurt). Sleeth and Greisinger were reaches given their stats. Miller projected as a #3, but once he arrived, he inexplicably could not maintain control he had in the early minors.

Aside his SO/G ratio, Gio Gonzalez did not project above a #3 starter, which is about where he is at.

I showed Greg Maddux' career, only to offer hope for someone like Porcello. I am not saying Porcello will be the next Greg Maddux, but there are a quite few similarities in the minor and early MLB careers.

 

[Rebbiv]

And just for the record....Prado last 3 years away:

.268 BAVG .323 OBP .406 SLG .729 OPS 73.61 RC/650

versus Delmon Younng

.284 BAVG .319 OBP .441 SLG .760 OPS 76.82 RC/650


I understand if Prado plays 2b that it is a position of need. However, from all other viewpoints, if Prado does not play 2B (i.e OF), or play it well (above average defense), this would actually be a downgrade.

 

[buddyboy2121]

Verlander's first two MLB starts

11.3 IP 15 H 9 ER 5 BB 7 K 7.15 ERA 1.77 WHIP

Turner's first two MLB starts

9.6 IP 10 H 8 ER 3 BB 8 K 7.45 ERA 1.34 WHIP

Greg Maddux first five MLB starts

30.0 IP 43 H 18 ER 11 BB 19 SO 5.40 ERA 1.80 WHIP


Small sample sizes


Now Minor League Stats before age 23:

Verlander 0.90 WHIP 5.23 SO/BB 10.3 SO/G

Baugh 1.09 WHIP 4.31 SO/BB 9.7 SO/G

Turner 1.14 WHIP 3.66 SO/BB 7.7 SO/G

Porcello 1.19 WHIP 2.12 SO/BB 5.4 SO/G

A. Miller 1.19 WHIP 2.69 SO/BB 7.6 SO/G

Maddux 1.19 WHIP 2.06 SO/BB 5.7 SO/G

Wheatland 1.25 WHIP 3.32 SO/BB 8.1 SO/G

Gonzalez 1.26 WHIP 2.54 SO/BB 10.3 SO/G

Sleeth 1.39 WHIP 2.35 SO/BB 7.4 SO/G

Greisinger 1.45 WHIP 1.87 SO/BB 5.8 SO/G



Baugh, Wheatland and Sleeth, all, had arm troubles in the minors. It is more about bad luck, then not living up to prospect status.

Minor league stats for pitchers can be predictive. Most people understand WHIP (under 1.20 is preferred). SO/BB Ratio above 2.00 is good, but above 3.00 is preferred at the minor level. Anything above 4.00 is outstanding. Next, SO/G shows somewhat the quality of stuff. Anything above 7.0 is good, anything above 8.0 is outstanding.

So, if you evaluate pitchers with these in mind, Baugh and Wheatland projected to be a #1 or #2 (before they got hurt). Sleeth and Greisinger were reaches given their stats. Miller projected as a #3, but once he arrived, he inexplicably could not maintain control he had in the early minors.

Aside his SO/G ratio, Gio Gonzalez did not project above a #3 starter, which is about where he is at.

I showed Greg Maddux' career, only to offer hope for someone like Porcello. I am not saying Porcello will be the next Greg Maddux, but there are a quite few similarities in the minor and early MLB careers.

I understand the point you're trying to make but all three pitchers are completely different. Verlander is a flamethrower with nasty second pitchers. Maddux is a slow groundball pitcher with unbelievable control. Turner is sorta unknown but is a semi hard thrower with a plus curve and average change