Lions pick up Ebron's fifth year option

[dubbsco]

"And Zenner started scoring at the end of the year at least too in the red zone."

4 TDs on the year. Come on.

 

[tomdalton22]

all of these weapons and the lions were in the bottom 1/3 in offense.

odd

 

[inkfreq]

Ink, if you look at some of the league's best WRs and TEs throughout the past decade and sort the data by TDs, you'll see that with a few exceptions, the guys at the top of the list are the best players in the league. If they are good enough, they'll get the ball. That's what makes them special.

There's been too much covering up and explaining away why Ebron doesn't catch TD passes.

Calling TDs a meaningless stat is incorrect, IMO.

Win/Loss by pitchers in baseball, sure. That's meaningless. TDs by NFL players? No shot, that's important.

Couldn't disagree more. The best players run their assignments, and they can't force the QB to throw their way. Players get asked to do a lot of different things by coaches that we as fans will never even know about.

TD's are a meaningless stat when gauging whether not not a player is being productive for his team. A Tight End, for example, might be asked to block to open holes, or he might be asked to be a decoy over the middle. That's still opening the opportunities the coach wants for a different player.

TDs as a whole, for the team, are obviously important. That's how you win. But which guy gets them doesn't matter, so long as the coach feel a player is executing the game plan correctly.

 

[inkfreq]

Zenner scored 4 rushing TDs all season. Three of them came in the final two weeks. That's not production.. that's game planning and fluke.

http://www.nfl.com/player/zachzenner/2553631/gamelogs

Zenner won't even make the roster this season.

 

[brewer229]

Ebron might be in there to block?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_cJVZ5YfUw

 

[dubbsco]

Whoops, looking at the date inverted. But doesn't make my point any different. The guy wasn't a threat in the red zone.

We are going to agree to disagree on that. You are really selling scoring a TD short. It's not a simple matter of, "Guy A is covered, so guy B will be open and should score." There's a reason every team has that elite alpha dog that is typically at the top of the chain when it comes to TDs scored. If it was that easy and it was truly a uniform team offense, everyone would have 4-6 tds and perfectly equal.

Scoring a TD, especially in the red zone, is a whole new ball game. For me, it becomes less about scheme and more about pure, raw ability to beat your man and catch the touchdown.

I'm not saying the other players aren't being productive. But I sure put a hell of a lot more value in those guys who catch them.

 

[LKP]

Offensive line issues hurt the red zone
Stafford finger final 4 games and playoffs (some of the worst offensive games)
top two RBs hurt the red zone
We got called for a lot of penalties (some terrible calls) in the red zone it seemed

 

[Tonyballs2]

You guys should work for the scouting dept. Good God damn that's some in depth info on Ebron...lol.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Ebron might be in there to block?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E_cJVZ5YfUw

That's our boy..

 

[dubbsco]

"We got called for a lot of penalties (some terrible calls) in the red zone it seemed"

Near the bottom of the NFL in penalties called against. Any other stats you'd like to make up?

 

[LKP]

"We got called for a lot of penalties (some terrible calls) in the red zone it seemed"

Near the bottom of the NFL in penalties called against. Any other stats you'd like to make up?

Not made up. Red zone penalties not overall penalties

 

[inkfreq]

In 2016 DeAndre Hopkins had 11 TDs. The next highest on his team was Nate Washington with 4.

By using receiving TDs as a measuring stick we can conclude that every player on the 2016 playoff team just sucks. They had no production.

The number doesn't take into account the coaches game plan. It doesn't take into account the terrible QB in Oswieler. It doesn't take into account a whole lot of variables.

Anyone would argue that the QB couldn't throw TDs, and they would be right. But if the start can't be used when there is a bad QB, it shouldn't be used when there is an exceptional QB, and therefore it's not a measuring stick at all.

No one has said Ebron was a blocker. Or that he's a good player (no one with a brain anyway), or that we should have picked up his option. I'm saying judging any player by their TD total is about as short sighted as you can get. It's a world way to measure a players value.

 

[kdp1980]

In 2016 DeAndre Hopkins had 11 TDs. The next highest on his team was Nate Washington with 4.

By using receiving TDs as a measuring stick we can conclude that every player on the 2016 playoff team just sucks. They had no production.

The number doesn't take into account the coaches game plan. It doesn't take into account the terrible QB in Oswieler. It doesn't take into account a whole lot of variables.

Anyone would argue that the QB couldn't throw TDs, and they would be right. But if the start can't be used when there is a bad QB, it shouldn't be used when there is an exceptional QB, and therefore it's not a measuring stick at all.

No one has said Ebron was a blocker. Or that he's a good player (no one with a brain anyway), or that we should have picked up his option. I'm saying judging any player by their TD total is about as short sighted as you can get. It's a world way to measure a players value.

Its just mind blowing how much of a non factor this guy is in the red zone dude. Makes no sense. I'd love to see the game tape to see what the hell he's doing out there in those situations

 

[tomdalton22]

In 2016 DeAndre Hopkins had 11 TDs. The next highest on his team was Nate Washington with 4.

By using receiving TDs as a measuring stick we can conclude that every player on the 2016 playoff team just sucks. They had no production.

The number doesn't take into account the coaches game plan. It doesn't take into account the terrible QB in Oswieler. It doesn't take into account a whole lot of variables.

Anyone would argue that the QB couldn't throw TDs, and they would be right. But if the start can't be used when there is a bad QB, it shouldn't be used when there is an exceptional QB, and therefore it's not a measuring stick at all.

No one has said Ebron was a blocker. Or that he's a good player (no one with a brain anyway), or that we should have picked up his option. I'm saying judging any player by their TD total is about as short sighted as you can get. It's a world way to measure a players value.

Hopkins had 4 TDs in 2016 (so did CJ Fiedorowicz) with Oswiler as the QB. It was 2015 that he had 11 and Washington had 4. That year Brian Hoyer was the QB.

 

[dubbsco]

Ink, with those numbers I can conclude that Hopkins is a really damn WR, and Nate Washington is decent. Isn't that the truth? By the way, I think you mean 2015 lol.

It's all relative man. If they had a much better QB, I would argue that the TDs would increase in proportion. Hopkins would have a pretty big jump up, and Washington might catch a few more. Something like 15 and 7 maybe?

You keep jumping to this conclusion that I think if you don't catch a lot of TDs, you aren't productive. That's not the point. My point is that you are underselling the importance of them. The best WRs typically catch the most TDs, and the stats really bear that out. That's why they are the best.

TDs aren't some product of a good game plan and having the guy with the most TDs being fortunate of that. It's not a "time and place" thing that you are arguing.

 

[inkfreq]

Damn, I was convinced Hopkins didn't have that many TDs last year too. I had him on my fantasy team, and I was like "ELEVEN?! I DON'T REMEMBER THAT!".

4 in 2016 makes a lot more sense.

Dubs, I don't think they are a time and place thing at all. I think they are a bad stat to measure the VALUE of any player. Not the production, the value.

 

[dubbsco]

Haha, yeah. I was a bit confused too but you can just say the 2015-2016 season and I would have went along with it.

That's fair. Going with the value v production different would help us reach a common ground on this discussion.

Either way, back to the initial point, if Ebron was doing other things in the game to justify his 1 TD, I'd be accepting of that. But he doesn't do those things. He can't block and he really hasn't "pulled other defenders away" to free up targets.

 

[inkfreq]

I don't think to date Ebron has justified his top 10 draft status or the money he's paid. Pettigrew was a better TE, and that makes me queasy to say. But, he's got another two seasons now to show he can be that guy, so I hope he turns it around.

The fact is, given how much can room we have for next year, his 5th year, it want a no risk option really. We are going to have too find some creative ways to spend to get to the salary floor. And that's assuming the cap doesn't raise yet again.

 

[LKP]

Ebron had 2 TDs and one taken away. Approaching Hopkins level

 

[brewer229]

Looking at TDs for a single year can be a bit misleading, however over a number of years you do see a trend of great players scoring more. Looking at the 3 years MUN has been in the league. TD Leaders over that span (minimum 17 games played) are:

Antonio Brown*
Odell Beckham*
Jordy Nelson**
Dez Bryant**
Mike Evans**
Rob Gronkowski
Brandon Marshall
Antonio Gates***
Doug Baldwin***
Allen Robinson
Ebron Ranks tied for 94th


If you look at TDs per game played your top 10 is:
Nelson
Beckham
Brown
Bryant
gronkowski
Martavis Bryant
Julius Thomas
Mike Evans
Calvin Johnson
Gates
Ebron Ranks 119th