MSU pres. Resigns

[Sbee]

If that was all they were doing, I would agree, but they are going beyond just protecting identities of people that are accused.

When you redact what it is you asked a law firm to do in a review of your Title IX policies, that's more than protecting identities. Reducing this to just protecting the identities of people that haven't been charged is a high degree of spin.

It seems to me, what ESPN was after were the documentation of the alleged incidents involving athletes, the title 9 recommendations aren't much of a story alone. ESPN went after the accusations and got them, MSU tried to protect their identities. Why would they give out the names of people who were either exonerated or never charged? what purpose would that serve other than to put a stain on those individuals that they'd live with for the rest of their lives, regardless of the facts of the case. they would be instantly guilty in the court of public opinion regardless of what the law says. If you think any athletic department or university wouldn't have done the same thing, you're kidding yourself.

 

[Sbee]

not just poor choice of words... he was making a straw argument to deflect from wholly legitimate criticism of Lou Anna Simon. No one is out there saying the only "thing" going on at MSU is covering up sexual assault.

"The Holocaust was bad, period.

"Well... YES, but there were a lot of good things happening in Nazi Germany as well. I just don't think it's fair to ignore all the positive things The Third Reich accomplished....

False equivalence of the year, congratulations

 

[Michchamp]

False equivalence of the year, congratulations

it is not. it is exactly what he was doing.

 

[Gulo Blue]

If you think any athletic department or university wouldn't have done the same thing, you're kidding yourself.

I guess I'm kidding myself.

Please link to any other athletic department (maybe not counting Baylor) that's done the same thing.

 

[Spartanmack]

Trust me, I'm not in the least offended or aggravated about the discussions.

I just am stunned that defending Joel Ferguson was actually a thing.

I know. And I never said you were aggravated.

 

[Gulo Blue]

It seems to me, what ESPN was after were the documentation of the alleged incidents involving athletes, the title 9 recommendations aren't much of a story alone.

Could you explain what you're saying here. It seems like you're saying that MSU has to protect names, and that things without names aren't much of a story. Why? Because there aren't names? Those two lines of thinking would justify covering up everything.

Since it was redacted, you don't know it isn't a story. All you know is it's a secret.

 

[Spartanmack]

I guess I'm kidding myself.

Please link to any other athletic department (maybe not counting Baylor) that's done the same thing.

were the names of accused but innocent or at least people not charged or suspended in the Baylor case? how can this be proved if the information isn't disclosed? I guess we'll have to wait until ESPN sends a FOIA request to every school who has ever conducted a title IX investigation.

 

[Gulo Blue]

were the names of accused but innocent or at least people not charged or suspended in the Baylor case? how can this be proved if the information isn't disclosed? I guess we'll have to wait until ESPN sends a FOIA request to every school who has ever conducted a title IX investigation.

I didn't ask for an example from every other school. I asked for an example from any other school.

 

[Michchamp]

False equivalence of the year, congratulations

were the names of accused but innocent or at least people not charged or suspended in the Baylor case? how can this be proved if the information isn't disclosed? I guess we'll have to wait until ESPN sends a FOIA request to every school who has ever conducted a title IX investigation.

look instead of continuing to post this nonsense, argue semantics, try to change the subject, etc. maybe the both of you can just come out and admit you don't give a shit that your alma mater covered up 150+ cases of sexual assault (or tried to) and move on.

that's a defensible position at least. sad, horrible, and callous, but defensible.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I worry about Michigan hiring Pepper Hamilton, but on the plus side, MGoBlog notes that this was spotted on Harbaugh's marker board:

 

[Gulo Blue]

Apparently, Pepper Hamilton bought Louis Freeh's firm after the Penn State investigation.

from wikipedia:

On February 5, 2013 Freeh was named Chair of the law firm Pepper Hamilton LLP. He resigned the chairmanship earlier than slated, in October 2014.

https://www.buzzfeed.com/katiejmbak...re-to-help-the?utm_term=.ir29KPWw9#.woQnXAdzn

In a 2013 profile, The American Lawyer called Smith a "guru for colleges and universities looking to reform sexual assault culture on campus" who helped institutions "avoid the courtroom" by conducting investigations and advising administrators on how to comply with gender equity law Title IX and the Clery Act, which requires schools to accurately report campus violence. The article also called Smith "part of the scandal cleanup crew" for her most "high-profile engagements," including Occidental College, Amherst College, the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, and the University of California at Berkeley, all schools currently under investigation by the United States Department of Education for allegedly violating federal law regarding on-campus sexual assault.

They were also hired by UVA when Rolling Stone did that piece on that frat that fell apart.
http://www.c-ville.com/business-rape-whos-getting-paid-fix-uvas-sexual-assault-problem/

 

[Sbee]

I guess I'm kidding myself.

Please link to any other athletic department (maybe not counting Baylor) that's done the same thing.

I said they "would" not that they "have." There's an obvious reasons that those individuals who have been accused of a crime but either exonerated or didn't have charges pressed against them should have their names kept secret. I am saying that in a situation like this, I'd assume that any other school would try to protect the names of the accused but not prosecuted.

Let's put it this way, other schools aren't out there publicizing situations where athletes or regular students for that matter are accused of a crime without charges being filed. There's a reason why they want that protection, maybe if ESPN asked for those names, they would give them up without a fight, but I highly doubt it since the names weren't public in the first place.

When a player is suspended, you almost never hear the reason unless there are charges pressed and it's public. It's always either a violation of team rules or a violation of university policy. All D1 programs do this, MSU was just in the spotlight.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I said they "would" not that they "have." There's an obvious reasons that those individuals who have been accused of a crime but either exonerated or didn't have charges pressed against them should have their names kept secret. I am saying that in a situation like this, I'd assume that any other school would try to protect the names of the accused but not prosecuted.

Let's put it this way, other schools aren't out there publicizing situations where athletes or regular students for that matter are accused of a crime without charges being filed. There's a reason why they want that protection, maybe if ESPN asked for those names, they would give them up without a fight, but I highly doubt it since the names weren't public in the first place.

When a player is suspended, you almost never hear the reason unless there are charges pressed and it's public. It's always either a violation of team rules or a violation of university policy. All D1 programs do this, MSU was just in the spotlight.

Who's talking about protecting student names? Only you. Everybody understands the names of innocent people need to be protected.

I'm talking about how far beyond just protecting student names they went. Let me know when I start sounding like a broken record. Protecting student names, normal. Protecting every detail of anything relating to the topic to the point where you issue separate Title IX reports with conclusions missing from the one that goes to the victim, not at all normal.

 

[hungry]

Gulo, I think you need to repost your "those are really long names" post...It's almost like it went unseen.

 

[Michchamp]

Gulo, I think you need to repost your "those are really long names" post...It's almost like it went unseen.

it was most likely intentionally ignored as it doesn't fit the excuses or stories we're hearing.

 

[Sbee]

It actually is common for there to be two title 9 reports, one for the individual and one for the university that also contains recommendations. It was recommended that Nassar only conduct pelvic manipulation with another physician present, which he ignored and there was no know follow up.

Sent from my NS-P10A8100 using Tapatalk

 

[Gulo Blue]

It actually is common for there to be two title 9 reports, one for the individual and one for the university that also contains recommendations. It was recommended that Nassar only conduct pelvic manipulation with another physician present, which he ignored and there was no know follow up.

Sent from my NS-P10A8100 using Tapatalk

I better fix this article then.


https://www.lansingstatejournal.com...higan-state-larry-nassar-title-ix/1069493001/

MSU hid full conclusions of 2014 Nassar report from victim

EAST LANSING ? A 2014 sexual assault investigation of Larry Nassar by MSU?s Title IX office concluded that his conduct could open the university to lawsuits and expose patients to ?unnecessary trauma based on the possibility of perceived inappropriate sexual misconduct.?
Those key findings were never shared with Amanda Thomashow, the patient who said Nassar had assaulted her. Instead, those conclusions were part of a second report that went to Michigan State University?s Office of General Counsel, Nassar and his then-boss at the College of Osteopathic Medicine, William Strampel.
The final Title IX report Thomashow received from MSU, which she shared with the Lansing State Journal in 2016, had a ?Conclusions and Recommendations? section of just 41 words. The complete ?Conclusions and Recommendations? section in Nassar?s copy, which the State Journal has obtained, is 246 words and cited problems with both Nassar?s conduct and MSU?s procedures.

...which is actually common.


There. Fixed.

 

[Spartanmack]

I didn't ask for an example from every other school. I asked for an example from any other school.

ok, but that doesn't mean that no other school has or wouldn't protect the names of people who were accused, investigated and cleared.

 

[Spartanmack]

look instead of continuing to post this nonsense, argue semantics, try to change the subject, etc. maybe the both of you can just come out and admit you don't give a shit that your alma mater covered up 150+ cases of sexual assault (or tried to) and move on.

that's a defensible position at least. sad, horrible, and callous, but defensible.

complains about straw arguments, then 3 posts later makes straw argument. We're not even talking about the Nassar case.

Your line about it being a defensible or even more defensible position than what we're saying about the OTL piece is one of the dumbest things you've ever said.

 

[Gulo Blue]

You can weasel around wording to turn a finding into a recommendation (instead of "we found problem A", recommend "don't do A"), but either way the headline is correct.