MSU pres. Resigns

[Michchamp]

Yeah. The court of public opinion. I think it's a mob. They want heads to role, and they want them to roll now. As many heads as possible. Especially the most important heads. They want heads to roll far more than they want good investigations to ensure it's the right heads that roll.

Hold on: You don't think resignations are appropriate, given how this has been handled?

are they still "a mob" of their demands are arguably reasonable, and just?

for us, who cares, right? but I think MSU staff and current students have more of a stake in how this goes down. they've consistently called for resignations.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Hold on: You don't think resignations are appropriate, given how this has been handled?

are they still "a mob" of their demands are arguably reasonable, and just?

for us, who cares, right? but I think MSU staff and current students have more of a stake in how this goes down. they've consistently called for resignations.

That's not what I'm saying. I'm mostly talking about Spartans.

Simon and Hollis deserved to be booted for taking the cover up approach to all this.

Who needs to be booted over Nassar and other assault issues requires investigation. You can argue Simon and Hollis were ultimately responsible either way, and I won't fight you on that, but the investigation still needs to happen.

So the mob happened to be right about Simon and Hollis (even though the reasoning was incomplete), but they still want everyone gone in those articles that list of dozen who's who in the Nassar case along with Izzo and Dantonio.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I think I asked SBee before Simon resigned, "don't you think she should be fired for how she handled this?"

 

[hungry]

http://www.espn.com/espn/otl/story/...s-michigan-state-spartans-assault-allegations

Here is the link to the ESPN article for Travis Walton's denials. I link it, because his alleged accuser in the alleged bar assault speaks out in the comments. I found it an interesting read.

There are some comments from fans of other schools than just Michigan and MSU in there, also.

 

[Spartanmack]

I'm sorry man, there's absolutely no, no way to defend the way Joel Ferguson spoke. He put his foot in his mouth. You can pick other battles in this argument, and I won't be critical of your defense. But that's one you need to leave alone.

case in point, perfect example of the perpetually aggrieved. Dubbs found a way to be offended, which is the only legitimate way to view Ferguson's statements. You cannot explain anything to a grievance hustler, the words only mean what makes them outraged and therefore, you must respect their offense and leave it alone. Is dubbs in the good mob I'm reading about here?

 

[Sbee]

case in point, perfect example of the perpetually aggrieved. Dubbs found a way to be offended, which is the only legitimate way to view Ferguson's statements. You cannot explain anything to a grievance hustler, the words only mean what makes them outraged and therefore, you must respect their offense and leave it alone. Is dubbs in the good mob I'm reading about here?

right, Ferguson may be guilty of a poor choice of words, but a reasonable person should be able to understand the context of his statement and realize that he's making a fair point, not isolate two words and call for his head.

 

[dubbsco]

case in point, perfect example of the perpetually aggrieved. Dubbs found a way to be offended, which is the only legitimate way to view Ferguson's statements. You cannot explain anything to a grievance hustler, the words only mean what makes them outraged and therefore, you must respect their offense and leave it alone. Is dubbs in the good mob I'm reading about here?

Who is offended or aggravated?

I read his whole statement. It was a stupid thing to say. And as a big part of the university, you don't say that shit. Period, end of discussion.

Oh shit, THE DUDE HIMSELF regretting saying what he said.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...michigan-state-university-trustee/1060198001/

Hell, HE IS NOT even defending himself. Only the MSU fans who are absolutely dug into this case are. Spartans make mistakes sometimes, it's okay. No one's perfect. He said something pretty stupid. Pick your battles elsewhere.

There's a lot to argue and discuss about this case. I understand why a lot of you guys are being passionate about what's happening, it's your school. And I don't blame you. But actually trying to justify what Ferguson said is laughable.

 

[Sbee]

That's not what I'm saying. I'm mostly talking about Spartans.

Simon and Hollis deserved to be booted for taking the cover up approach to all this.

Who needs to be booted over Nassar and other assault issues requires investigation. You can argue Simon and Hollis were ultimately responsible either way, and I won't fight you on that, but the investigation still needs to happen.

So the mob happened to be right about Simon and Hollis (even though the reasoning was incomplete), but they still want everyone gone in those articles that list of dozen who's who in the Nassar case along with Izzo and Dantonio.

Can you please highlight the examples of Simon and Hollis covering this up? not trying to be argumentative, trying to understand what you are referring to. Simon was notified of a title 9 investigation into an unnamed doctor in 2014, the investigation cleared Nassar based on statements from other Osteopathic doctors. That's the only thing that I've seen saying Simon knew before 2016. As for Hollis, to be clear, I've mentioned this before but Athletic trainers and team doctors don't report up through the athletic department, so Nassar was not part of Hollis's jurisdiction. You said that Hollis should resign well before the OTL report so it had to be related to Nassar.

Trying to figure out what they did to deserve to be fired, other than being in a leadership position at a time when a monster was associated with the University.

 

[Sbee]

Who is offended or aggravated?

I read his whole statement. It was a stupid thing to say. And as a big part of the university, you don't say that shit. Period, end of discussion.

Oh shit, THE DUDE HIMSELF regretting saying what he said.
https://www.freep.com/story/news/lo...michigan-state-university-trustee/1060198001/

Hell, HE IS NOT even defending himself. Only the MSU fans who are absolutely dug into this case are.

Because the mob had their pitchforks out for saying "thing" instead of "tradgedy." Oh the horror!!

Like Dave Chappelle said in his last special, America has turned into a bunch of bitch ass N------!

 

[dubbsco]

Because the mob had their pitchforks out for saying "thing" instead of "tradgedy." Oh the horror!!

Like Dave Chappelle said in his last special, America has turned into a bunch of bitch ass N------!

What do you want people to say? One of the biggest cases is in the middle of happening at MSU, and someone who has a ton of power comes out and says there's more important shit to worry about. He deserved to get criticized, he did. I don't think you need to defend him.

 

[Gulo Blue]

case in point, perfect example of the perpetually aggrieved. Dubbs found a way to be offended, which is the only legitimate way to view Ferguson's statements. You cannot explain anything to a grievance hustler, the words only mean what makes them outraged and therefore, you must respect their offense and leave it alone. Is dubbs in the good mob I'm reading about here?

Spartans I talk to are pretty upset about those comments. Not "perpetually aggrieved" people. People that think the articles about Izzo and Dantonio are a stretch.

 

[dubbsco]

Trust me, I'm not in the least offended or aggravated about the discussions.

I just am stunned that defending Joel Ferguson was actually a thing.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Can you please highlight the examples of Simon and Hollis covering this up?

Sue ESPN & fight FOIA requests, black out documents to the point of unreliability, have internal investigations with only verbal reports so FOIA can't get them, issue 2 versions of Title IX reports so the victim doesn't get the entire conclusions.

You're in denial still asking that question at this point.

 

[Gulo Blue]

MSU lost their case and their appealwhen ESPN went after them

http://www.detroitnews.com/story/ne...-state-espn-student-records-lawsuit/77835900/

and they lost their FOIA lawsuit against ESPN twice

https://www.lansingstatejournal.com...e-espn-foia-lawsuit-sexual-assault/676752001/

They are only as transparent as the courts force them to be.

 

[Sbee]

Sue ESPN & fight FOIA requests, black out documents to the point of unreliability, have internal investigations with only verbal reports so FOIA can't get them, issue 2 versions of Title IX reports so the victim doesn't get the entire conclusions.

You're in denial still asking that question at this point.

Protecting the identity of people who are accused but not criminally charged is common sense. Let's say that you accept the letter of the law, if a player is cleared like Adrien Payne was, word of these accusations would be very damaging. If there were charges, of course that's public record, but Payne was only guilty of having sex with this girl. ESPN runs the story, uses his name, and therefore he gets released by the Orlando Magic the next day.

I have no problem with protecting the identity of the accused, doesn't matter what school they go to.

 

[Sbee]

Spartans I talk to are pretty upset about those comments. Not "perpetually aggrieved" people. People that think the articles about Izzo and Dantonio are a stretch.

I'm sure there are plenty of snowflake Spartans out there, that's where the majority of the outrage came from. Saying "thing" instead of "tragedy" or "situation" isn't really that big of a deal, in some minds, it may sounds like he's trivializing it but listen to the whole statement, not just the sound byte.

 

[dubbsco]

I'm sure there are plenty of snowflake Spartans out there, that's where the majority of the outrage came from. Saying "thing" instead of "tragedy" or "situation" isn't really that big of a deal, in some minds, it may sounds like he's trivializing it but listen to the whole statement, not just the sound byte.

That's not what makes him look bad. It's not the word. It's that he put it on the backburner of priorities in his mind.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Protecting the identity of people who are accused but not criminally charged is common sense. Let's say that you accept the letter of the law, if a player is cleared like Adrien Payne was, word of these accusations would be very damaging. If there were charges, of course that's public record, but Payne was only guilty of having sex with this girl. ESPN runs the story, uses his name, and therefore he gets released by the Orlando Magic the next day.

I have no problem with protecting the identity of the accused, doesn't matter what school they go to.

If that was all they were doing, I would agree, but they are going beyond just protecting identities of people that are accused.

When you redact what it is you asked a law firm to do in a review of your Title IX policies, that's more than protecting identities. Reducing this to just protecting the identities of people that haven't been charged is a high degree of spin.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I'm sure there are plenty of snowflake Spartans out there, that's where the majority of the outrage came from. Saying "thing" instead of "tragedy" or "situation" isn't really that big of a deal, in some minds, it may sounds like he's trivializing it but listen to the whole statement, not just the sound byte.

I actually hadn't noticed the "thing" instead of "spin" complaint. My impression was that people are upset because he seemed to be claiming the Simon has done so much fundraising, she's untouchable over Nassar.

 

[Michchamp]

I'm sure there are plenty of snowflake Spartans out there, that's where the majority of the outrage came from. Saying "thing" instead of "tragedy" or "situation" isn't really that big of a deal, in some minds, it may sounds like he's trivializing it but listen to the whole statement, not just the sound byte.

not just poor choice of words... he was making a straw argument to deflect from wholly legitimate criticism of Lou Anna Simon. No one is out there saying the only "thing" going on at MSU is covering up sexual assault.

"The Holocaust was bad, period.

"Well... YES, but there were a lot of good things happening in Nazi Germany as well. I just don't think it's fair to ignore all the positive things The Third Reich accomplished....