sick of people saying that Michigan is a 1man team

[TheVictors]

It's not irrational, it's irrelevant now.

 

[uofmpoweri]

So , 'PowerI' what was your name on ESPN anyways because this line sounds awfully familiar. And it's awfully 2008-09 sounding, I mean it's not like MICHIGAN has the #1 class for 2012, a 5-star Pro Style QB for 2013 and an entirely different staff, culture and scheme.

As for 'Heisman-caliber' players not being drafted, I'm assuming you mean to include all 4-5 Heisman Finalists over the past 20yrs or so, right? Guys like Eric Crouch who won the thing and never saw live action once in the NFL ... guys like that, right?

Eric Crouch was drafted in the NFL. He ran the option and Nebraska could not pass the ball either. I am not going to look up his stats, but I bet that they are better than Denard. My name was the same on ESPN. What is wrong with 2008ish? I think that most Michigan fans would wind back the clock to that point and reverse course if given the opportunity.

 

[TheVictors]

Eric Crouch was 'drafted' by St Louis and never made it out of Camp. But that's not your point and why are Crouch's stats relevant in comparison to Denard's? There are plenty of great college players who don't make it in the NFL, what's your point? Tim Tebow was a 4th/5th rounder until Josh McDaniels took him in the first and the Heisman winner list is full of NFL failures, especially when you use your words ... 'Heisman caliber,' not winner.

You're beating the shit out of a dead horse at this point. You completely ignored the fact that -- despite your assertion to the contrary -- UM's recruiting is off to an incredible start and behind the insanely athletic Denard are Devin Gardner and Shane Morris.

If you're so pissed about people who call Denard a 'Heisman caliber' talent, tell ESPN and everyone else whose doing it, not MICHIGAN fans.

 

[deathroh]

They're not in their right mind if they don't base their decision of where to attend college on who the QB will be during their freshman season. Right. Nothing about that sounds backwards...

I think that it is fair. No one wants to turn into another Forcier. A smart player should stack the deck in his favor. Just like right now I would say that no one in their right mind would go to OSU or Miami to play football. Going to those schools create additional risk into the players future that a smart player should not allow. I know that "this is Michigan", but a player can get the same thing from another 40 schools in the country. Why take the chance of Denard setting your development back during 25% of your NFL prep school? Is that really an irrational line of thought?

Michigan has a rich, recent history of placing WR's in the NFL. The OC prefers to run a pass heavy, pro-style offense, and they're recruiting the top quarterback in the country. That is more than enough to attract talent.

Denard will have very little to do with an incoming freshman's development. At least in a football sense, garnered from game experience since he would be relatively buried on the depth chart anyway. Where he's going to get the value out of this 25% of his college experience is from the coaches by learning how to practice, compete, and be a man.

The biggest problem here is you're judging how the next year and a half is going to be based on how the first four games have gone. Doesn't it make sense that there will be substantial improvement, especially next year? Or do you think Denard has learned everything he can learn and/or Borges has implemented everything he can think of? That doesn't seem very rational.

 

[KAWDUP]

Hey I understand you are a fan, and probably further trying to throw some reality into the analysis, but there is a place where you go terrrbly wrong (hopefully bolded above). To me that sounds like something a troll would say. It is BS. Believing that he is great is NOT in any way blinded or anything of the kind. It is called a differing opinion. Get over it.

You got your opinion on how he measures up to the NFL caliber QB's Michigan has produced in the past. Good for you.
I prefer to look at some rather smart pundits that count Drob among the Heismann candidates. Anyone who carries that moniker could be considered great by a multitide of people and many fan's opinions.

So on that one poiint you are wrong.

So I am being judgmental and you don't like my opinion because it differs from your opinion? Did you even read what you wrote? You are lecturing me because I am saying that he does not compare to NFL caliber Michigan QB's, fair enough. Then you tell me that you want to listen to people that say that he is Heisman Caliber. How many Heisman caliber players go undrafted? None! Therefore, you are saying that he is NFL caliber and in the same class (or better) than former great Michigan quarterbacks.

I, along with anyone (other than hope blinded Michigan fans) that has watched him throw the ball, will disagree. I think that a lot of these people that call him a heisman candidate look at the stat line. They didn't see him getting lucky throwing up jump balls against Notre Dame for 300+ passing yards. They simply see 500 total yards of offense. 500 yards of offense is impressive, but it is deceptive considering how poorly he played in that game.

As for the troll statement. If this board is only for Michigan yes men, then call me a troll. I don't really care.

No, I never said I how I felt about your stupid opinion until this post. I was saying I disaree that he isn't a great college football player, a great Michigan player, and a great athelete. He is all of those - no blinders here. He is great by nearly every measure other than his drop back passing skills. Ask me if I give a crap that he won't get drafted but wins the Heisman? HA. I realize that may be all you care about, but I care about wins and Big Ten championships. If he can get us one of those, I would be ecstatic, and totally justified for calling him great.

Of course I read what I wrote. Seems you don't though. I am not lecturing you - just answering you in kind. You think he is somehow deterimental to the program. Well I have no blinders on and I can say uncategorically that you are wrong. Get it now?

Further I wasn't looking at any stat line - I have watched every minute of his career. So friggin' what?

As you can see by the number of comments to the contrary, you are in the minority with that opinion, and there are many in this thread disagreeing with you that have no blinders on as far as the Michigan football program goes.

Get over yourself. Deal with the fact that you got called out for making a rather irrelevant and ignorant statement.

 

[TheVictors]

This rant is identical to DJDinky's rant on the Disney board earlier this week. Talking about 'negative impact on recruiting' when that's simply patently false.

 

[uofmpoweri]

Ok, I'm convinced. Denard is great. He is unstoppable, and quite possibly the best player in the world. Michigan is lucky to have him. He is the best Qb that I have ever laid eyes on. The only reason that he has incomplete passes is the play calling and personnel around him. Once he gets some players everyone will see his completion rate zoom up to at least 80%. The guy is amazing. Talented receivers will be beating down the doors trying to get this guy to lead them to the NFL. I will not be surprised when this team goes undefeated. Denard will win at least one national championship. If he is not drafted with the first overall pick after his junior year, then Michigan will win back to back championships. Any team in the NFL would bench their starting QB for DR right now if they had the opportunity.

Ahhhh, Finally in the group think of the Michigan board. I feel so accepted with my fellow arrogant assholes.

 

[TheVictors]

How old are you, twelve? You can't have an adult discussion and concede when you're wrong?

Denard Robinson is the M QB right now, he won't be forever. The recruiting class for next year is #1 in the nation and we have PRECISELY the type of QB you're whining about not having in the 2013 class.

If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, making specific counterpoints to your incorrect assertions, then maybe this sandbox isn't for you. 'Group think?' ..... LMAO, I thought you said you used to post on the espn board ....'Group think' is the last thing this group suffers from.

 

[hungry]

Ok, I'm convinced. Denard is great. He is unstoppable, and quite possibly the best player in the world. Michigan is lucky to have him. He is the best Qb that I have ever laid eyes on. The only reason that he has incomplete passes is the play calling and personnel around him. Once he gets some players everyone will see his completion rate zoom up to at least 80%. The guy is amazing. Talented receivers will be beating down the doors trying to get this guy to lead them to the NFL. I will not be surprised when this team goes undefeated. Denard will win at least one national championship. If he is not drafted with the first overall pick after his junior year, then Michigan will win back to back championships. Any team in the NFL would bench their starting QB for DR right now if they had the opportunity.

Ahhhh, Finally in the group think of the Michigan board. I feel so accepted with my fellow arrogant assholes.

Wow! You're really losing it. No one on this board is saying any of the above. Nice rant, though.

 

[uofmpoweri]

How old are you, twelve? You can't have an adult discussion and concede when you're wrong?

Denard Robinson is the M QB right now, he won't be forever. The recruiting class for next year is #1 in the nation and we have PRECISELY the type of QB you're whining about not having in the 2013 class.

If you can't handle people disagreeing with you, making specific counterpoints to your incorrect assertions, then maybe this sandbox isn't for you. 'Group think?' ..... LMAO, I thought you said you used to post on the espn board ....'Group think' is the last thing this group suffers from.

Group think, of course not, what was I thinking. This is Michigan, everyone else has group think but not us *sticks nose in air*.

I did concede to all points and now I understand that DR is better than sliced bread and canned beer. I would rather cut my bread and drink bottled beer than have a different quarterback at Michigan. We should be ranked number 1 right now!!

 

[TheVictors]

Oh grow up you little crybaby. Your sarcastic crap is pathetic.

 

[uofmpoweri]

This rant is identical to DJDinky's rant on the Disney board earlier this week. Talking about 'negative impact on recruiting' when that's simply patently false.

No you are pathetic for thinking that it would be impossible for two people to come to the conclusion that DR can not pass. It doesn't take a troll to see his short comings. Just look at the level of competition that Michigan has played and look at the number of interceptions that he has thrown. DR is not a freshman, he should be near the top of his game.

Look at your level of discourse before you condemn other people. If you want to be a dick, then people are going to be a dick back to you. I am sure that you have noticed a lot of that in your life. I never accused anyone of anything. I simply stated the FACT that Denard is the worst passing quarterback that I have ever seen play college football. If you want to call that "greatness" then by all means please do. I will step back out of the group think chamber and laugh at all of you.

As for great recruiting. How many 5 star recruits do we have on Rivals? That is what I thought. But, I am patently false because you say so. Mediocre is the new standard for Greatness at Michigan. Lets all hope for that 8-4 season!!!

 

[TheVictors]

Quit claiming I've said things that I've never said or, for that matter, creating this straw man you're railing on, acting as if we M fans haven't been divided and arguing for the past 3yrs. Quit acting like a know-it-all for stating 3yr old opinions about the Michigan offense when things have already changed. Quit acting like you're some 'objective' fan who has such an enlightened view, that anyone else who has a more mature and patient view of the program is an idiot or a victim of 'brainwashing.'

Clearly you don't fully grasp 'group think' based on your use of it and call me a dick all you want. You're more than entitled to your opinion on UM, the scheme, the QB and me .....just don't let the FACTS of the situation get in the way of your whining.

Maybe I'm simply intolerant of stupid people incapable of making a cogent argument and then stomping off in a huff when called out. And I think you probably are DJDinky - nobody else is as obstinate or redundant in the face of facts to the contrary.

 

[uofmpoweri]

Quit claiming I've said things that I've never said or, for that matter, creating this straw man you're railing on, acting as if we M fans haven't been divided and arguing for the past 3yrs. Quit acting like a know-it-all for stating 3yr old opinions about the Michigan offense when things have already changed. Quit acting like you're some 'objective' fan who has such an enlightened view, that anyone else who has a more mature and patient view of the program is an idiot or a victim of 'brainwashing.'

Clearly you don't fully grasp 'group think' based on your use of it and call me a dick all you want. You're more than entitled to your opinion on UM, the scheme, the QB and me .....just don't let the FACTS of the situation get in the way of your whining.

Maybe I'm simply intolerant of stupid people incapable of making a cogent argument and then stomping off in a huff when called out. And I think you probably are DJDinky - nobody else is as obstinate or redundant in the face of facts to the contrary.

I don't think that I've gone anywhere. But if that is what they have told you to think then you know what you are to think. Way to go big guy. You have not argued any facts. You have argued opinion. It appears that I am the only one in this discussion that has brought out any numbers. You know those pesky stats that are hard to get your mind around. How many five stars son? How many interceptions son? What is the problem? You resort to baseless accusations of identity theft. Is that your position. If so, then you are wrong yet again. I can not say that I am surprised.

 

[rayhowland3]

What a crock! I guess Denard was out there playing D and getting those turnovers? Did I miss the fact that the MIchigan D limited SDSU to 7 points? Sure, they had some yards...I think we all know how much good yards do.

The defense is out there playing. The other players are out there blocking. Vince Smith had a nice little day out there.

Its a TEAM!

just sick of it

I agree. The defense has been playing very well, especially creating turnovers and making key stops. Definitely not a one man show in Ann Arbor...

 

[wolverine304]

To think a recruit desides on what school he goes too on who the quarter back is his FRESHMAN year and his freshman year only. Is really dumb. Most freshman hardly even play, so why would they care. They care about the coaches, the players they'll spend their 4yrs with, location, playing time, history of the school.

If michigan was known for qbs like I denard, id agree with you. Top Wrs wouldn't want to play here as badly. But just for one year is silly. Especially with hoke being coach and already having a pro style qb recruit. And devin loves to throw

 

[wolverine304]

Decide*

 

[TheVictors]

So now you're 'smiting' me out of anger?! LMAO! Stats? What stats? You don't think we all watch Michigan games? You've ignored every reply to your premise of wanting a time machine so you can go back to 2008 and change history. Nobody disagrees with the claim that Denard isn't the world's best passer, idiot, it's just that EVERYBODY KNOWS IT and it's a DEAD HORSE

 

[uofmpoweri]

To think a recruit desides on what school he goes too on who the quarter back is his FRESHMAN year and his freshman year only. Is really dumb. Most freshman hardly even play, so why would they care. They care about the coaches, the players they'll spend their 4yrs with, location, playing time, history of the school.

If michigan was known for qbs like I denard, id agree with you. Top Wrs wouldn't want to play here as badly. But just for one year is silly. Especially with hoke being coach and already having a pro style qb recruit. And devin loves to throw

What is Michigan known for right now? That is the question. The product on the field is what most kids in other parts of the country know them for. You have to remember that they are 17 years old.

 

[wolverine304]

17yr olds, not fuck tards. Its common sense that michigan is going back to pro style. Michigan was known for the spread offense under rich rod. He's not here anymore. Hoke is, a coach who has never had a spread offense other than now because he has too. If the player isn't smart enough to figure this out then I doubt he's smart enough to have a gpa to get into michigan.

You think while talking to the player hoke never mentions that michigan will be a pro style offense again? I think that is a little more effective than what a 17yr old has seen in the past with a whole different coaching staff.