So did Pizza Boy, run out of dough?

[turok]

DET has averaged 2.56 Mil in attendance over the last 3 years. The average ticket price in 2011 was $29.32. 2.56 x $29.32 = $75.1 Mil.

DET receives an additional amount of revenue of about $30-40 Mil a year (media, merchandise, etc), so the total is about $105-115 Mil.

Certainly, the could anticipate increase in attendance. However, that is generally only good for 1-2 years. With a 500k increase in attendance, they could go to $120 Mil - 130 Mil.

And, of course, they could raise ticket prices. But, with the depressed economy, this might be counter-productive.

And some people think the Tigers should have a payroll of $130M a year.

Not as concerned about the Tigers keeping their payroll down to a manageable level with the shitty local economy and its effect upon CoPa's seasonal attendance in mind, as I am about what I consider their mediocre if not largely ineffective inability to help their "blue chip" positional prospects and young players improve upon their hitting and fielding @ the AA-AAA minor/major-league level.

I am quite aware that "pure" if any gawd-given talent cannot be "taught", but when I see the Tigers' prospects brought up to the bigs for the second or third time, and nothing whatsoever has changed in their approaches and/or their mechanics on the field or @ the plate, it makes me wonder just WTF their hitting, pitching, throwing, and fielding instructors and coaches are doing with them "down there"...huh?!?

??? :

 

[Rebbiv]

SP - Verlander
SP - Fister
SP - Scherzer
SP - Porcello
SP - Turner/Crosby/Below/Wilk


CL - Valverde
RP - Benoit
RP - Dotel
RP - Coke
RP - Alburquerque
RP - Pauley
RP - Schlereth
RP - Perry

Not sure who is in or out, but this isn't that bad of a group.


Additionally, Penny getting 11 wins was the result of the team.

Team Record in starts

Fister 8-2 .800

Verlander 25-9 .735

Porcello 21-10 .677

Scherzer 21-12 .636


Sub Total = 75-33 .694



Penny 16-15 .516

Coke 4-10 .286

Furbush 0-2 .000

Below 0-2 .000

Oliver 0-2 .000

Turner 0-3 .000



Sub Total = 20-34 .370


It is very, very plausible that the team goes 83-47 (.638) in the games Verlander, Fister, Scherzer and Porcello starts. If the #5 starter got 32 starts, the team would most likely only need 12 wins whenever that pitcher starts to repeat last year. So yes, replacing Penny isn't all that difficult.

Schlereth, Perry, and Pauley all very iffy, and who knows what Al Al does next year.

And we have options for a #5 yea, but don't forget Scherzer and Porcello are still feast or famine pitchers.

That list you put together is not all that bad, but it's not all that good either.

Feast or famine????? They are MLB starters. Not every starter is going to have a year that Verlander had. In fact, I doubt he dulicates it again.


Last 2 year record with the following starts:

Verlander 46-21 .687 (23)

Porcello 34-24 .586 (19)

Scherzer 34-30 .531 (17)


I am pretty sure DET will win about 21 games of Fister's starts in 2012, bringing the total to 80 Wins in 130 Games Started. Certainly, getting a guy like Buehrle would have put them close to 100 Wins, but DET could even win 15 of DET's 5 Starter, whoever that is. That brings us to 95 wins.


The point is, despite the statical differences, DET has only won 2 more games when Verlander started than Porcello. A starter is meant to keep the game close, that is it.

 

[tomdalton22]

My math may be off but it looks like they won 4 more games...not 2

 

[jimrice]

Mitch[/color]]

I don't really understand this. Platoons can be incredibly productive.

Which ones do we have that are productive? Inge, Dirks, Kelly, Santiago, DY, Raburn.

I responding to your idea that a platoon player isn't worth jack. There have been a lot of platoons throughout the history of the Tigers that were very successful. But there's a difference between a player best used in a platoon role and a guy that just isn't a starter.

Raburn has shown to be a very effective player against lefties.
Even Young is above average against lefties.
Inge is usable against lefties based on career norms. A respectable OPS around .800.

The problem with the Tiger's platoons is the left handed batters. Santiago, Kelly, Dirks are all part time players and not the kind of guys that get favorable match ups.

This current team as it stands has a few half platoons, and the lesser used half at that.

 

[turok]

Mitch[/color]]


Which ones do we have that are productive? Inge, Dirks, Kelly, Santiago, DY, Raburn.

I responding to your idea that a platoon player isn't worth jack. There have been a lot of platoons throughout the history of the Tigers that were very successful. But there's a difference between a player best used in a platoon role and a guy that just isn't a starter.

Raburn has shown to be a very effective player against lefties.
Even Young is above average against lefties.
Inge is usable against lefties based on career norms. A respectable OPS around .800.

The problem with the Tiger's platoons is the left handed batters. Santiago, Kelly, Dirks are all part time players and not the kind of guys that get favorable match ups.

This current team as it stands has a few half platoons, and the lesser used half at that.

"The Detroit Free Press tweets that GM Dave Dombrowski said the Tigers didn't make an offer to free agent Kelly Johnson, who ultimately accepted arbitration from the Blue Jays."

http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/detroit_tigers/index.html

Yeah, well that is completely understandable, given that the club may well have as many as three guys on their roster/bench who might be available to fill their "void" @ 2B next season.

\Sarc off.

meh...

:-/

 

[mhughes0021]

DD basically reiterated that there's a lot of offseason still left yesterday. Moves that made sense weren't really there for us yet, but I'm confident we'll do something big this offseason or by the trade deadline.

reyes was perfect for us...we didnt want to spend the dough.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Nt only was he the right player for us but a lead off htter would have been huge.

 

[mjsb2]

[quote="Mitch":7y7jixjz]But 2B has to be fixed. First priority.

I disagree.

Pitching is the most important thing for any team, and we have no 5th starter.

We have serious bullpen issues outside of Coke, Benoit, and Valverde.

People bitched, and bitched, and bitched last year about Brad Penny, but he went 11-11 for us, does anyone really think Jacob Turner has a shot to come close to that?

Porcello and Scherzer are still enigmas at times, bottom line is we can survive with platoons at C, LF, 2B, and 3B. We can't with the holes we have in our pitching staff.

Man, I really wanted to land Buehrle.[/quote:7y7jixjz]

Do I think Turner has a chance to be better than Turner?

Uh, yeah, I do.

Worst case scenario, Turner is as bad as Penny was, but he won't be any worse.

 

[tycobb420]

I disagree.

Pitching is the most important thing for any team, and we have no 5th starter.

We have serious bullpen issues outside of Coke, Benoit, and Valverde.

People bitched, and bitched, and bitched last year about Brad Penny, but he went 11-11 for us, does anyone really think Jacob Turner has a shot to come close to that?

Porcello and Scherzer are still enigmas at times, bottom line is we can survive with platoons at C, LF, 2B, and 3B. We can't with the holes we have in our pitching staff.

Man, I really wanted to land Buehrle.

Do I think Turner has a chance to be better than Turner?

Uh, yeah, I do.

Worst case scenario, Turner is as bad as Penny was, but he won't be any worse.

Turner could be significantly worse. Penny did what he was brought here to do. He won 11 games and ate up innings.

 

[mjsb2]

DET has averaged 2.56 Mil in attendance over the last 3 years. The average ticket price in 2011 was $29.32. 2.56 x $29.32 = $75.1 Mil.

DET receives an additional amount of revenue of about $30-40 Mil a year (media, merchandise, etc), so the total is about $105-115 Mil.

Certainly, the could anticipate increase in attendance. However, that is generally only good for 1-2 years. With a 500k increase in attendance, they could go to $120 Mil - 130 Mil.

And, of course, they could raise ticket prices. But, with the depressed economy, this might be counter-productive.

Revenue from the 2010 season was 192 million according to Forbes, and going to the playoffs will have pushed their 2011 revenue over 200 million.

 

[mjsb2]

Do I think Turner has a chance to be better than Turner?

Uh, yeah, I do.

Worst case scenario, Turner is as bad as Penny was, but he won't be any worse.

Turner could be significantly worse. Penny did what he was brought here to do. He won 11 games and ate up innings.

No, he actually couldn't.

Penny was one of the 5 worst starters in baseball last season.

 

[Mitchrapp]

So we got Laird, Dotel and a Perry clone. YES, thank you DD.

 

[jimrice]

Mitch[/color]]So we got Laird, Dotel and a Perry clone. YES, thank you DD.

It's December 9th.

What have you expected? Let's start there. I can't believe anyone thought Puhols or Fielder were targets. And, really, guys like Buerhle and Wilson were pipe dreams. The Tigers addressed this year's starters in August by getting Fister, a guy not meant to just be a stretch run rental.

The needs were probably 3rd, 2nd and possibly LF. I don't really consider the back up C or bullpen moves as more than run of the mill baseball moves that every team does.

Ramirez isn't a great fit for the money it costs. Maybe if he was a left hander.
Kelly Johnson would have been OK, but not exactly a blockbuster possibility.

Realistically, who was available and for those that have signed, have they been worth it?

 

[Mitchrapp]

I can bitch if I want. Chill out.

 

[tycobb420]

Turner could be significantly worse. Penny did what he was brought here to do. He won 11 games and ate up innings.

No, he actually couldn't.

Penny was one of the 5 worst starters in baseball last season.

Horse hockey. He went 11-11, made 31 starts, and tossed 181 2/3 innings. That is what you want from a #5.

 

[turok]

DD may be just getting tuned/warmed-up for the "grand finale" of block-buster trades during this off-season, and might want to keep us Tigers fans in the dark about it/them until the very last possible moment until he springs it/them, IMO.

 

[mjsb2]

No, he actually couldn't.

Penny was one of the 5 worst starters in baseball last season.

Horse hockey. He went 11-11, made 31 starts, and tossed 181 2/3 innings. That is what you want from a #5.

Penny was one of the 5 worst starters in baseball last season.

 

[mhughes0021]

Illitch is content dying a loser...

 

[Mitchrapp]

So is Penny one of the 5 worst starters in baseball last season or not?

 

[jimrice]

Mitch[/color]]I can bitch if I want. Chill out.

LOL