So did Pizza Boy, run out of dough?

[Thumb]

Horse hockey. He went 11-11, made 31 starts, and tossed 181 2/3 innings. That is what you want from a #5.

Penny was one of the 5 worst starters in baseball last season.

So what?

How does that make Turner who is not MLB ready, at least as good?

So yea, Turner could be worse, and far worse.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

They won't let that happen. They'll find a scrub fifth starter before they hang Turner out to dry in the majors.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Not sure you can be far worse considering Penny was bottom 5, lol. But with Turner, its a high rate of reward if he gets to pitch.

 

[mjsb2]

Mitch[/color]]So is Penny one of the 5 worst starters in baseball last season or not?

Yes.

Penny was one of the 5 worst starters in baseball last season.

 

[Rebbiv]

DET has averaged 2.56 Mil in attendance over the last 3 years. The average ticket price in 2011 was $29.32. 2.56 x $29.32 = $75.1 Mil.

DET receives an additional amount of revenue of about $30-40 Mil a year (media, merchandise, etc), so the total is about $105-115 Mil.

Certainly, the could anticipate increase in attendance. However, that is generally only good for 1-2 years. With a 500k increase in attendance, they could go to $120 Mil - 130 Mil.

And, of course, they could raise ticket prices. But, with the depressed economy, this might be counter-productive.

Revenue from the 2010 season was 192 million according to Forbes, and going to the playoffs will have pushed their 2011 revenue over 200 million.

You failed to point out they had a - $29.1 Mil in Operating Income.

2009 - $26 Mil
2010 - $29 Mil
2011 - $29 Mil

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/33/baseball-valuations-11_Detroit-Tigers_332729.html

The skinny
The Tigers continue to be among the worst teams in the American League when it comes to getting a return on their payroll. In 2010 the Tigers had the third-highest payroll in the AL, $134 million, yet played .500 baseball.

Illitch is a smart business man and he is not going to continue to lose $29 Mil from year to year.

https://www.teammarketing.com/public/files/2011_mlb_fci.pdf

For the layperson, you can figure out what a payroll should be for a given team buy multiplying average ticket price x attendance + $30-40 Mil. It isn't an exact science, but it is certainly better than picking numbers our you ass.

 

[mjsb2]

Revenue from the 2010 season was 192 million according to Forbes, and going to the playoffs will have pushed their 2011 revenue over 200 million.

You failed to point out they had a - $29.1 Mil in Operating Income.

2009 - $26 Mil
2010 - $29 Mil
2011 - $29 Mil

http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/33/baseball-valuations-11_Detroit-Tigers_332729.html

The skinny
The Tigers continue to be among the worst teams in the American League when it comes to getting a return on their payroll. In 2010 the Tigers had the third-highest payroll in the AL, $134 million, yet played .500 baseball.

Illitch is a smart business man and he is not going to continue to lose $29 Mil from year to year.

https://www.teammarketing.com/public/files/2011_mlb_fci.pdf

For the layperson, you can figure out what a payroll should be for a given team buy multiplying average ticket price x attendance + $30-40 Mil. It isn't an exact science, but it is certainly better than picking numbers our you ass.

No I didn't.

I was talking about their revenue.

I'm well aware the Tigers can't sustain a 130 million dollar payroll yearly, and I'm not complaining that they aren't involved in any of the free agent talks this winter. I don't expect Illitch to lose millions of dollars every year just because he's old and wants to win, I understand fully baseball is a business first.

 

[uofmpoweri]

DD is not a very good GM IMO. The last two years. Inge, Santiago, Rayburn, Dotel, Benoit, Santiago, Laird = 19 MILLION DOLLARS!!!

Think about that when you wonder why we can't get Reyes, Ramirez, or a 5th starter. We need to start letting this garbage walk instead of resigning it to millions of dollars.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Outside a rough beginning, Benoit was stead. Very good. DD, IMO, is good. Maybe not the best but he has brought talent in. And signed some garbage contracts. We're not the Yankees', Red Sox or the Angels with their new TV deal. We can't spend that much as they do as I much as I'd like MI too.

 

[uofmpoweri]

Mitch[/color]]Outside a rough beginning, Benoit was stead. Very good. DD, IMO, is good. Maybe not the best but he has brought talent in. And signed some garbage contracts. We're not the Yankees', Red Sox or the Angels with their new TV deal. We can't spend that much as they do as I much as I'd like MI too.

Benoit was steady down the stretch, but.... he signed the most money for a set up man in history thanks to DD. Not a smart signing especially since we are not the Red Sox, Yankees, or Angels. Every penny needs to count and DD throws away a lot of pennies. $3 million for santiago and Laird is ridiculous. Minor leaguers can do their jobs and save 2 million dollars. You can't have it both ways. On one hand we can waste money on bad contracts. On the other hand we aren't the yankees so we can't spend. It is one or the other. Be frugal or spend the money.

 

[jmakula87]

I would take Santiago and Laird for however much they are making rather than plugging in minor leaguers. And if we can have one of those bullpens that shuts down the 7th, 8th, and 9th, that will take us a long ways. And all of those guys equaling out to 19 million really isn't that crazy. I don't feel like taking up the time to look up if those numbers are actually correct, but 7 guys for 19 million really isn't that bad. We can't just go without back ups.

 

[uofmpoweri]

I would take Santiago and Laird for however much they are making rather than plugging in minor leaguers. And if we can have one of those bullpens that shuts down the 7th, 8th, and 9th, that will take us a long ways. And all of those guys equaling out to 19 million really isn't that crazy. I don't feel like taking up the time to look up if those numbers are actually correct, but 7 guys for 19 million really isn't that bad. We can't just go without back ups.

If you want to win then you can not spend a huge chunk of your payroll on unproductive players. How about putting that money into a couple stars and surrounding them with young players that cost $400,000. You can win without back ups, this isn't basketball. You don't really need a bench.

 

[Thumb]

DD is not a very good GM IMO. The last two years. Inge, Santiago, Rayburn, Dotel, Benoit, Santiago, Laird = 19 MILLION DOLLARS!!!

Think about that when you wonder why we can't get Reyes, Ramirez, or a 5th starter. We need to start letting this garbage walk instead of resigning it to millions of dollars.

The second I read you saying DD is not a good GM was the second I knew you had no clue what makes a good GM.

He's had a ton more success than failures, maybe Randy Smith can come back if you prefer?

 

[kalinecountry]

Mitch[/color]]

I don't really understand this. Platoons can be incredibly productive.

Which ones do we have that are productive? Inge, Dirks, Kelly, Santiago, DY, Raburn.

Against lefty pitching, I think Inge, Raburn, DY, do better in a platoon than as fulltime or the lefty bats Dirks, Kelly, Santiago. The lefty bats here don't instill fear in opposing pitchers, and not much confidence from me/us in them facing righty pitchers.
Outside of Martinez batting lefty, and Boesch, who else bats lefthanded with power and average? Team is lacking another solid bat that would take the majority of games at the positions of platoon.

That was why I wanted DeJesus, good pop, good defense and all around.
Markakis is another lefty bat that can hit and field. But this is all part of wish listing. Zobrist?? and the other want list Gardner that cause some to say no to a low ops LF obp/linedrive rate, infield hits, stolen bases, speed around bases and in the field.

Something still might happen with DD making a trade.

All the talk up to now is the Tigers have about the best chance of signing the Cuban Cespedes. I can't see miami just letting him sign with us without a similar offer to play in miami's little cuba. Then what?

 

[ihatebadenglish]

DD is not a very good GM IMO. The last two years. Inge, Santiago, Rayburn, Dotel, Benoit, Santiago, Laird = 19 MILLION DOLLARS!!!

Think about that when you wonder why we can't get Reyes, Ramirez, or a 5th starter. We need to start letting this garbage walk instead of resigning it to millions of dollars.

WTF are you talking about?

For one, you listed Santiago twice.

For two, all of those guys are veterans. The only bad contract is Inge, and that is not crippling the payroll in any way.

 

[batcave76]

KalineCountry[/color]]
[quote="Mitch":x1ci41lj]


Which ones do we have that are productive? Inge, Dirks, Kelly, Santiago, DY, Raburn.

Against lefty pitching, I think Inge, Raburn, DY, do better in a platoon than as fulltime or the lefty bats Dirks, Kelly, Santiago. The lefty bats here don't instill fear in opposing pitchers, and not much confidence from me/us in them facing righty pitchers.
Outside of Martinez batting lefty, and Boesch, who else bats lefthanded with power and average? Team is lacking another solid bat that would take the majority of games at the positions of platoon.

That was why I wanted DeJesus, good pop, good defense and all around.
Markakis is another lefty bat that can hit and field. But this is all part of wish listing. Zobrist?? and the other want list Gardner that cause some to say no to a low ops LF obp/linedrive rate, infield hits, stolen bases, speed around bases and in the field.

Something still might happen with DD making a trade.

All the talk up to now is the Tigers have about the best chance of signing the Cuban Cespedes. I can't see miami just letting him sign with us without a similar offer to play in miami's little cuba. Then what?[/quote:x1ci41lj]I can't see them going into the season w/such mediocre options at 2nd and 3rd. They have to upgrade at 1 or the other. The FAs this year didn't really fit the team's needs so hopefully a trade will happen.

 

[uofmpoweri]

DD is not a very good GM IMO. The last two years. Inge, Santiago, Rayburn, Dotel, Benoit, Santiago, Laird = 19 MILLION DOLLARS!!!

Think about that when you wonder why we can't get Reyes, Ramirez, or a 5th starter. We need to start letting this garbage walk instead of resigning it to millions of dollars.

WTF are you talking about?


For one, you listed Santiago twice.

For two, all of those guys are veterans. The only bad contract is Inge, and that is not crippling the payroll in any way.

My Mistake on Listing Santiago twice.

1. My point is pretty easy to understand. Do I need to write it in smaller words?
2, Do "veterans" that can't hit do a better job at making outs than rookie that can't hit?
3. Is $19 million loose change for you? I don't understand your problem. Only one player on my list is even usable, and DD gave him more money than any set up man in history. The rest are over paid bench warmers for the majority of major league teams.
4. The big question. Would you trade all of this garbage for Hanley Ramirez. Everyone would call you nuts if you thought that you could get a good player for that bunch of garbage. If that is the case, then why are we paying this garbage more money than a superstar.
5. Conclusion: DD hasn't been doing a good job when it comes to allocating money.

 

[uofmpoweri]

DD is not a very good GM IMO. The last two years. Inge, Santiago, Rayburn, Dotel, Benoit, Santiago, Laird = 19 MILLION DOLLARS!!!

Think about that when you wonder why we can't get Reyes, Ramirez, or a 5th starter. We need to start letting this garbage walk instead of resigning it to millions of dollars.

The second I read you saying DD is not a good GM was the second I knew you had no clue what makes a good GM.

He's had a ton more success than failures, maybe Randy Smith can come back if you prefer?

A ton? Willis contract, Robertson contract, guillen Contract, Magglio resigning, Zumaya, Granderson trade, Inge contract, Sheffield contract, Bonderman contract, Letting Polonco go, Trading Jurgens for Rentaria, Washburn pick up, Huff Pick up, Damon pick up etc etc etc. (In case you don't know, I classify these as failures)

 

[Mitchrapp]

Polanco wanted a 3 year deal. You'd be bitching now if he was here. If you're putting maggs resign as a negative than you need to add Maggs being added initially a plus. Washburn and Huff were cheap. They didn't cst us anyone. Damon wasn't at his best but better than not having him. And what about getting Pudge, Guillen and Polanco and Fister and Valverde and I could go on and on. The plusses easily out weights the negatives.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Oh yeah, I forgot the biggee, getting Cabrera and adding Victor Martinez.

 

[uofmpoweri]

Mitch[/color]]Polanco wanted a 3 year deal. You'd be bitching now if he was here. If you're putting maggs resign as a negative than you need to add Maggs being added initially a plus. Washburn and Huff were cheap. They didn't cst us anyone. Damon wasn't at his best but better than not having him. And what about getting Pudge, Guillen and Polanco and Fister and Valverde and I could go on and on. The plusses easily out weights the negatives.

We are talking about a Good GM. Every team is going to add players that are good when you throw around 100 million dollars. Did it take a great GM to trade two minor leaguers for a 25 year old superstar? Is signing a closer that hard to do? Washburn and huff were busts, they didn't get the job done. Sheffield was a disaster. Jackson is a bust so far. Edwin Jackson should have got us a better player than Sherzer. He got Colby Rasmus for Toronto and E. Jackson isn't close to the player that he was for us. Damon was a 6 million dollar waste of money. Polonco would be much better at second or third than anything that we have now. I would not bitch about the Polonco contract, where is our number two hitter since he left? I don't think that resigning Magglio was a bad idea, but you can not argue that it worked out. Oh I forgot the Adam Everett move too. All in all DD does not have more successes than failures.