Super Bowl??

[motown1958]

Fourth quarter numbers, what were those again? Better than who those last 7 weeks, Geno Smith - lol.

Nobody disagrees with you about the second half of the season. He also won them games in the fourth quarter in the first half of the year. It was a Jekyll and Hyde season. It can't be explained by saying he isn't talented because he has proven he is. It can be explained by saying that he lost confidence because he played defeated towards the second half of the season. I dont know why; I am not the brain tumor that caused this.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I dont disagree he wasn't elite this season. I am saying the potential is there based on when he was on compared to other qbs in the game.

When he was in? Guys like Sanchez even had good games from time to time. Elite is how you finish not how you start. That includes the season and the games. His fourth quarter numbers were horrific.

 

[motown1958]

When he was in? Guys like Sanchez even had good games from time to time. Elite is how you finish not how you start. That includes the season and the games. His fourth quarter numbers were horrific.

Not when they were winning. He was playing well in the fourth quarter in the first half of the season. Yes it is how you finish thus why he isn't elite...but HE HAS THE ABILITY to be. I never said he was elite I said he put up comparable numbers to the elite guys when he was playing well early on in the season. That obviously didn't carry through so he isn't elite. You are acting like I said he should be an all pro this season or we should erect a fucking statue in his honor. He was terrible when it really mattered. I dont know if thats how he will always be or not. I hope he can be corrected but if not then so be it. This is the lions. We are used to them being shit.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Not when they were winning. He was playing well in the fourth quarter in the first half of the season. Yes it is how you finish thus why he isn't elite...but HE HAS THE ABILITY to be. I never said he was elite I said he put up comparable numbers to the elite guys when he was playing well early on in the season. That obviously didn't carry through so he isn't elite. You are acting like I said he should be an all pro this season or we should erect a fucking statue in his honor. He was terrible when it really mattered. I dont know if thats how he will always be or not. I hope he can be corrected but if not then so be it. This is the lions. We are used to them being shit.

How, because he had one good year 3 seasons ago? I keep on hearing the ability but outside arm strength what else does he do well? I'm serious about this..I want him to be good too but I don't see it. Unless the new coach doesn't allow him to throw as much. Look like we had a better run game, why not limit his PA to 500 or less?

 

[jared]

Drew Brees, you know who is? Some would say he's a gunslinger, and yet 4 of his last 5 years have been over 68%. Two over 70%.

No one expects Staff to be as good as Brees but they are so far apart it's not even funny. Look at Rogers, consistently good with competing passes. P. MANNING seems to always be over 65%. Now these are elite QB but it gives an idea of how far apart they are..especially when some say Matt was brilliant for half a season.

Maybe people don't think completion percentage is that big of a deal..a guy like Staff, number one pick making his money should be at 65% year after year. It helps.

So you are saying that in order for our QB to meet your standard of acceptability, he has to have a completion percentage that is the sixth best (career average) in the history of the National Football League? You are out of your mind.

 

[motown1958]

How, because he had one good year 3 seasons ago? I keep on hearing the ability but outside arm strength what else does he do well? I'm serious about this..I want him to be good too but I don't see it. Unless the new coach doesn't allow him to throw as much. Look like we had a better run game, why not limit his PA to 500 or less?

I would have liked to have seen it around 575 pa. He was around 650 not sure the exact number. Sub 500 wouldn't work they would be giving to many downs away. That being said changing how they throw is a must. I am sick of always being in shotgun, I am sick of our lack of a play action game. There are many scheme things I want changed. For Stafford he needs to fix his footwork. He throws to often leaning back or not stepping through the throw. I don't mind his arm angles since its fixed some of his knock downs at the LOS. Which is another thing I am pissed about. Throw the ball over the fucking defender damnit!!! Also he needs to learn how to throw with touch. There is so much basic things that could make him and this team better. Stop fumbling, stop dropping easy passes, stop making bad reads. Stop mental break downs on defense. There is a lot that needs fixed.

 

[Mitchrapp]

So you are saying that in order for our QB to meet your standard of acceptability, he has to have a completion percentage that is the sixth best (career average) in the history of the National Football League? You are out of your mind.

No, but the people who say in some way he's similar and the has potential of Brees. Which I don't see at all. That's all that meant..

 

[Mitchrapp]

I would have liked to have seen it around 575 pa. He was around 650 not sure the exact number. Sub 500 wouldn't work they would be giving to many downs away. That being said changing how they throw is a must. I am sick of always being in shotgun, I am sick of our lack of a play action game. There are many scheme things I want changed. For Stafford he needs to fix his footwork. He throws to often leaning back or not stepping through the throw. I don't mind his arm angles since its fixed some of his knock downs at the LOS. Which is another thing I am pissed about. Throw the ball over the fucking defender damnit!!! Also he needs to learn how to throw with touch. There is so much basic things that could make him and this team better. Stop fumbling, stop dropping easy passes, stop making bad reads. Stop mental break downs on defense. There is a lot that needs fixed.

500 is more than 30 passes a game. About middle of the pack, okay 550. Still needs to complete a lot more. 600 is too much for Stafford.

 

[jdeb]

500 is more than 30 passes a game. About middle of the pack, okay 550. Still needs to complete a lot more. 600 is too much for Stafford.

That is it. Look no further than Alex Smith. I'd take him over Stafford in a minute.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/8416/alex-smith

 

[Mitchrapp]

That is it. Look no further than Alex Smith. I'd take him over Stafford in a minute.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/8416/alex-smith

I'd take a lot of guys right now. What makes it worse is there have been many young QB in the last two years or so who have out produced Stafford.

 

[jared]

No, but the people who say in some way he's similar and the has potential of Brees. Which I don't see at all. That's all that meant..

You said that someone making what he makes should be at 65%, year after year. That is an unrealistically high standard. His first half numbers, 62.4% and 2600+ yards, are really, really good. The TDs (16) were a little low, but he's still young.

You seem to have decided that he is a bum, and will always be a bum. I just don't see what you see. I see, a young, flawed, and really talented player with loads of potential. He has just spend years in a system of zero accountability. When Schwartz was asked about mechanics, he said that Staffords mechanics were good. Ridiculous. But get someone in here who holds the kid accountable. See what happens. It's really early to write him off, and everyone here can tell by your comments that you have done exactly that.

 

[Mitchrapp]

You said that someone making what he makes should be at 65%, year after year. That is an unrealistically high standard. His first half numbers, 62.4% and 2600+ yards, are really, really good. The TDs (16) were a little low, but he's still young.

You seem to have decided that he is a bum, and will always be a bum. I just don't see what you see. I see, a young, flawed, and really talented player with loads of potential. He has just spend years in a system of zero accountability. When Schwartz was asked about mechanics, he said that Staffords mechanics were good. Ridiculous. But get someone in here who holds the kid accountable. See what happens. It's really early to write him off, and everyone here can tell by your comments that you have done exactly that.

Why not, Brees, Rodgers, Peyton - consistently near 65%. I'd take 63% for a few years. I'd people think he has the potential to be elite let him hang out with the big boys.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Btw Jared..what do you see? ARM STRENGTH, sure. What else? The best definition is great arm strength who can't do the little things. He doesn't produce.

 

[Mitchrapp]

As far as writing him off, I just want him to produce more than a young 3rd round pick or Alex Smith who before THE past three years gave up on him.

 

[LKP]

He produces touchdowns (31) and yards and first downs(221) and a good 3rd down %. More than most QBs in the league. Top 6 at least

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingYards

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/player/_/stat/passing/sort/passingTouchdowns

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/firstDownsPassing

http://espn.go.com/nfl/statistics/team/_/stat/downs/sort/thirdDownConvPct

You can live on the comp % and ignore the 9% drop rate (3-4% higher than most teams) all you want. The man produces over the course of the season.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I'm not even going to argue with you lkp, we're on opposite sides of the spectrum.

 

[LKP]

I'm not even going to argue with you lkp, we're on opposite sides of the spectrum.

I'm on the informed side. You are on the misinformed side. You are right opposite sides.

Top 6 in 4 major categories (tds, yards, 3rd down% and first downs passing (which leads to more attempts). But just ignore that. And go ahead and blame him for all 19 ints like a misinformed person. And assume Stafford is the only reason he's 58% and not 61%.

You've just been destroyed in this argument.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Blah blah blah, bla blah - blah.

 

[jared]

First 61 games:

Stafford

59.5% on 2497 attempts

Brees

62.0 % on 1880 attempts

Rodgers

63.4 % on 1850 attempts

Manning

60.99% on 2133 attempts

What do I see?

That Stafford will never be as good as Aaron Rodgers. I think Rodgers potentially can be considered one of the greatest of all time.

But I also see that we required this kid to throw a ton (25%) more than Brees or Rodgers did.

I also see that there seems to be a correlation between total attempts and completion percentage. Stafford threw nearly 41 times per game, while rodgers was just over 30. He isn't elite now. Not close. No one (except LKP) is arguing that. But of these three guys, most progressed. Rodgers didnt, but Rodgers was elite from day 1. Which, if you remember, was his fourth season.

You say there are guys you would rather have now that are younger?

Who?

Russel Wilson? I think this is probably the guy I would take in a perfect world.

63.6%, average of 25 throws per game.

Andrew Luck? I sure hope not.

57.0%, average of 37.4 throws per game.

Cam Newton?

59.6%, average of 30.7 throws per game.

Colin Kaepernick?

59.8%, average of 19.9 throws per game.

RGIII?

62.7%, average of 30.3 throws per game. He is also made of porcelain.


Luck is the most analogous to Stafford. I'd rather have Stafford.

Just admit that you hate him.

 

[zyxt9]

Elite qbs do one thing more often. They win games. They put the team on their back and they go out and win the fucking game. They don't go 3 and out with the lead, they get first downs and kill the other team's chance to win by running down the clock and maintaining ball control. They do not throw wild passed that stop the clock, not even forcing the opponent to use up timeouts.

Much of that is on the OC, granted, but the execution of the plays was equally poor. Elite QBs are able to audible into the right play, even check to runs that go no where. Hell, I would have been happier with taking a knee and punting deep than throwing incompletions late with the lead, at least the opponent has either less time or fewer timeouts.

Point is, elite QBs are able to grasp a given scenario and properly manage the game based on the situation of any given moment far better than Stafford. Does he do it well at times, yes...but certainly not at same level as elite. Hopefully new coach gets him to do that, which combined with better designed D at end of games will result in winning close games more often. It is a team effort to win those games, but a big part is QB situational awareneess and ability to audible effectively.

Maybe Staff just needs to become a better student of the game, which the right teacher can fix. Always hear how much study P Mann, Brady, and other elite QBs put in, I don't recall a single time that has been said of Stafford. Talent alone won't make him elite, obviously there is a much bigger mental aspect required.