Super Bowl??

[LKP]

Stafford made plays against Steelers(two drops before Calvin pick on jump ball), Bucs(throw to Durham for first down then fumbled, throw to Calvin(whole drive really), Ravens (TD drive to get the lead). Giants game there was 3rd and 1 stuff and a sack to end drives in the 4th. Pick 6 was bad but Stafford had to throw outside with LB on inside of Fauria. Eagles game blizzard didn't help foles or Stafford passing. McCoy and bad Lions run lost that game.


Vikings game, he did wilt after the fumble recovery and the first FG was a fiasco play calling after they got the offside gift on the Akers miss.

You are overexaggerating Staffords bad play. He made plays late in those games. The whole team did not.

 

[lgolfer]

Elite qbs do one thing more often. They win games. They put the team on their back and they go out and win the fucking game. They don't go 3 and out with the lead, they get first downs and kill the other team's chance to win by running down the clock and maintaining ball control. They do not throw wild passed that stop the clock, not even forcing the opponent to use up timeouts.

Much of that is on the OC, granted, but the execution of the plays was equally poor. Elite QBs are able to audible into the right play, even check to runs that go no where. Hell, I would have been happier with taking a knee and punting deep than throwing incompletions late with the lead, at least the opponent has either less time or fewer timeouts.

Point is, elite QBs are able to grasp a given scenario and properly manage the game based on the situation of any given moment far better than Stafford. Does he do it well at times, yes...but certainly not at same level as elite. Hopefully new coach gets him to do that, which combined with better designed D at end of games will result in winning close games more often. It is a team effort to win those games, but a big part is QB situational awareneess and ability to audible effectively.

Maybe Staff just needs to become a better student of the game, which the right teacher can fix. Always hear how much study P Mann, Brady, and other elite QBs put in, I don't recall a single time that has been said of Stafford. Talent alone won't make him elite, obviously there is a much bigger mental aspect required.

And no one (except maybe LKP) is saying he is elite. Some of us are just saying for stretches of games he has had very similar numbers to QBs who are considered elite. Because of that fact, we think he has potential to be very good. We're not saying he IS elite. Just that a good coach could maybe make a big difference with him.

 

[jared]

Elite qbs do one thing more often. They win games. They put the team on their back and they go out and win the fucking game. They don't go 3 and out with the lead, they get first downs and kill the other team's chance to win by running down the clock and maintaining ball control. They do not throw wild passed that stop the clock, not even forcing the opponent to use up timeouts.

Much of that is on the OC, granted, but the execution of the plays was equally poor. Elite QBs are able to audible into the right play, even check to runs that go no where. Hell, I would have been happier with taking a knee and punting deep than throwing incompletions late with the lead, at least the opponent has either less time or fewer timeouts.

Point is, elite QBs are able to grasp a given scenario and properly manage the game based on the situation of any given moment far better than Stafford. Does he do it well at times, yes...but certainly not at same level as elite. Hopefully new coach gets him to do that, which combined with better designed D at end of games will result in winning close games more often. It is a team effort to win those games, but a big part is QB situational awareneess and ability to audible effectively.

Maybe Staff just needs to become a better student of the game, which the right teacher can fix. Always hear how much study P Mann, Brady, and other elite QBs put in, I don't recall a single time that has been said of Stafford. Talent alone won't make him elite, obviously there is a much bigger mental aspect required.

I agree with all of this. He has work to do. But he's not a lost cause.

 

[lgolfer]

Stafford made plays against Steelers(two drops before Calvin pick on jump ball), Bucs(throw to Durham for first down then fumbled, throw to Calvin(whole drive really), Ravens (TD drive to get the lead). Giants game there was 3rd and 1 stuff and a sack to end drives in the 4th. Pick 6 was bad but Stafford had to throw outside with LB on inside of Fauria. Eagles game blizzard didn't help foles or Stafford passing. McCoy and bad Lions run lost that game.


Vikings game, he did wilt after the fumble recovery and the first FG was a fiasco play calling after they got the offside gift on the Akers miss.

You are overexaggerating Staffords bad play. He made plays late in those games. The whole team did not.

Can you find one article that says Stafford did not play poorly in the 2nd half of the season? Most of us aren't exaggerating (a few are, but not most)

 

[jared]

Stafford made plays against Steelers(two drops before Calvin pick on jump ball), Bucs(throw to Durham for first down then fumbled, throw to Calvin(whole drive really), Ravens (TD drive to get the lead). Giants game there was 3rd and 1 stuff and a sack to end drives in the 4th. Pick 6 was bad but Stafford had to throw outside with LB on inside of Fauria. Eagles game blizzard didn't help foles or Stafford passing. McCoy and bad Lions run lost that game.


Vikings game, he did wilt after the fumble recovery and the first FG was a fiasco play calling after they got the offside gift on the Akers miss.

You are overexaggerating Staffords bad play. He made plays late in those games. The whole team did not.

Umm I was at the Steelers' game. Stafford and the Lions lookedl like the best team in the history of sports in the second quarter. He was absolutely abysmal in the second half. Some of that was due to incredibly poor and deteriorating field conditions. But you aren't exacly helping your own argument. I could probably go back and find games where JaMarcus Russell made plays, too. He still sucked. The point is, consistency is key. You seem to think he's already there. Mitch seems to think he never will get there. And I'm kind of in the middle. He was shockingly bad in the second half of this season. Even you have to be able to see that. But I still think he's potentially a very, very, good QB. And one who can win.

 

[lgolfer]

Umm I was at the Steelers' game. Stafford and the Lions lookedl like the best team in the history of sports in the second quarter. He was absolutely abysmal in the second half. Some of that was due to incredibly poor and deteriorating field conditions. But you aren't exacly helping your own argument. I could probably go back and find games where JaMarcus Russell made plays, too. He still sucked. The point is, consistency is key. You seem to think he's already there. Mitch seems to think he never will get there. And I'm kind of in the middle. He was shockingly bad in the second half of this season. Even you have to be able to see that. But I still think he's potentially a very, very, good QB. And one who can win.

I agree with this. Glad to see that everyone isn't at the extremes.

 

[LKP]

Umm I was at the Steelers' game. Stafford and the Lions lookedl like the best team in the history of sports in the second quarter. He was absolutely abysmal in the second half. Some of that was due to incredibly poor and deteriorating field conditions. But you aren't exacly helping your own argument. I could probably go back and find games where JaMarcus Russell made plays, too. He still sucked. The point is, consistency is key. You seem to think he's already there. Mitch seems to think he never will get there. And I'm kind of in the middle. He was shockingly bad in the second half of this season. Even you have to be able to see that. But I still think he's potentially a very, very, good QB. And one who can win.

I'd rather you be watching on tv and re-watch the game two other times. That trumps being there. You would remember more. Did you notice the two drops before the Calvin pick? Plays were made by Stafford and not made by the receivers in the 4th. That led to the Calvin pick. Stafford finsihed 0-8(out of 20 incompletes) down 10 in that game but it was far from his fault. Did you see the great throw to Ogletree that was dropped on 2nd down after Stafford ran for a first. Yes Stafford missed some throws (Bush and Calvin in the first especially), but not even close to all 20 of his incompletes in that game. And glad you noticed the weather at least. Others want to ignore that and a blizzard where Foles sucked too. And ignore Calvin missing in our two lowest point games.

Stafford could live if the Lions had WR 1 depth(they don't and even missed Burleson in one and Pettigrew in another) and the Oline showed up(they didn't in either away division game). Neither happened for Stafford.

 

[jared]

I'd rather you be watching on tv and re-watch the game two other times. That trumps being there. You would remember more. Did you notice the two drops before the Calvin pick? Plays were made by Stafford and not made by the receivers in the 4th. That led to the Calvin pick. Stafford finsihed 0-8(out of 20 incompletes) down 10 in that game but it was far from his fault. Did you see the great throw to Ogletree that was dropped on 2nd down after Stafford ran for a first. Yes Stafford missed some throws (Bush and Calvin in the first especially), but not even close to all 20 of his incompletes in that game. And glad you noticed the weather at least. Others want to ignore that and a blizzard where Foles sucked too. And ignore Calvin missing in our two lowest point games.

Stafford could live if the Lions had WR 1 depth(they don't and even missed Burleson in one and Pettigrew in another) and the Oline showed up(they didn't in either away division game). Neither happened for Stafford.

So let me ask you this.

You are 100% good with Staffords level of play in the second half of 2013?

 

[lgolfer]

I'd rather you be watching on tv and re-watch the game two other times. That trumps being there. You would remember more. Did you notice the two drops before the Calvin pick? Plays were made by Stafford and not made by the receivers in the 4th. That led to the Calvin pick. Stafford finsihed 0-8(out of 20 incompletes) down 10 in that game but it was far from his fault. Did you see the great throw to Ogletree that was dropped on 2nd down after Stafford ran for a first. Yes Stafford missed some throws (Bush and Calvin in the first especially), but not even close to all 20 of his incompletes in that game. And glad you noticed the weather at least. Others want to ignore that and a blizzard where Foles sucked too. And ignore Calvin missing in our two lowest point games.

Stafford could live if the Lions had WR 1 depth(they don't and even missed Burleson in one and Pettigrew in another) and the Oline showed up(they didn't in either away division game). Neither happened for Stafford.

Like Jared said, it's not about how many plays Stafford can make, it's about consistency. Roethlisberger was playing in the same weather and he was 29-45, while Stafford was 19-46. Lions players did have some drops, but it wasn't just on them. Stafford missed guys several times when they were wide open and probably would've scored.

 

[jared]

Like Jared said, it's not about how many plays Stafford can make, it's about consistency. Roethlisberger was playing in the same weather and he was 29-45, while Stafford was 19-46. Lions players did have some drops, but it wasn't just on them. Stafford missed guys several times when they were wide open and probably would've scored.

The miss to Reggie Bush happened right in front of me.

Thanks for reminding me. :/

 

[grandy]

I am curious to know what Stafford's completion percentage looks like on throws to open receivers, and how it compares to the rest of the league. I'm sure it's just a case of selective memory, but it seems like quite a few chances were blown on off-target throws to open guys especially in the last month.

 

[LKP]

I am curious to know what Stafford's completion percentage looks like on throws to open receivers, and how it compares to the rest of the league. I'm sure it's just a case of selective memory, but it seems like quite a few chances were blown on off-target throws to open guys especially in the last month.

I'm curious to know how many incompletes were because of too tight of windows because Calvin was doubled (and the other WRs/TEs couldn't beat singled coverage) so he threw to Calvin(correct choice) and how many tight windows he had throwing in single coverage to the other WRs/TEs who didn't get enough separation one on one.

For instance, Aaron Rodgers, every time he throws to a guy they seem wide open in single coverage. I guess when you have Nelson, Jones and Cobb who all get separation against single coverage it helps. Can't double them all and the ones getting single coverage make you pay. Durham didn't make anyone pay and Burleson rarely made someone pay. Pettigrew doesn't get enough separation either but caught some tough ones this year.

 

[lgolfer]

So let me ask you this.

You are 100% good with Staffords level of play in the second half of 2013?

LKP, you're ignoring this question.

 

[grandy]

I'm curious to know how many incompletes were because of too tight of windows because Calvin was doubled (and the other WRs/TEs couldn't beat singled coverage) so he threw to Calvin(correct choice) and how many tight windows he had throwing in single coverage to the other WRs/TEs who didn't get enough separation one on one.

For instance, Aaron Rodgers, every time he throws to a guy they seem wide open in single coverage. I guess when you have Nelson, Jones and Cobb who all get separation against single coverage it helps. Can't double them all and the ones getting single coverage make you pay. Durham didn't make anyone pay and Burleson rarely made someone pay. Pettigrew doesn't get enough separation either but caught some tough ones this year.

Doesn't answer my question.

You're quick to defend Stafford when I'm not even attacking him. Just want to see some of these in-depth stats if they're out there.

 

[Mitchrapp]

First 61 games:

Stafford

59.5% on 2497 attempts

Brees

62.0 % on 1880 attempts

Rodgers

63.4 % on 1850 attempts

Manning

60.99% on 2133 attempts

What do I see?

That Stafford will never be as good as Aaron Rodgers. I think Rodgers potentially can be considered one of the greatest of all time.

But I also see that we required this kid to throw a ton (25%) more than Brees or Rodgers did.

I also see that there seems to be a correlation between total attempts and completion percentage. Stafford threw nearly 41 times per game, while rodgers was just over 30. He isn't elite now. Not close. No one (except LKP) is arguing that. But of these three guys, most progressed. Rodgers didnt, but Rodgers was elite from day 1. Which, if you remember, was his fourth season.

You say there are guys you would rather have now that are younger?

Who?

Russel Wilson? I think this is probably the guy I would take in a perfect world.

63.6%, average of 25 throws per game.

Andrew Luck? I sure hope not.

57.0%, average of 37.4 throws per game.

Cam Newton?

59.6%, average of 30.7 throws per game.

Colin Kaepernick?

59.8%, average of 19.9 throws per game.

RGIII?

62.7%, average of 30.3 throws per game. He is also made of porcelain.


Luck is the most analogous to Stafford. I'd rather have Stafford.

Just admit that you hate him.

So in all this he won't be as good as Rodgers, but you don't mention Brees or Manning, lol. As far as young QB, it's more than Wilson. And the fact so many others don't choke in the fourth. Some of them throw less int by far..

And it's not just about completion %. It's that other guys have other attributes. They can either run, or they're smarter with the football etc.

Talk about potential all you want but he produces like an average QB.

 

[LKP]

I think stafford made enough plays to win division this season. Could have made more obviously. And I don't blame him for every incomplete and every int. I watch each play and determine whose fault not just cast a genetic dumb our qb sucks statemen. Stafford gets some and his weapons get some. But stafford had plenty of tds and good drives this season.

 

[jared]

So in all this he won't be as good as Rodgers, but you don't mention Brees or Manning, lol. As far as young QB, it's more than Wilson. And the fact so many others don't choke in the fourth. Some of them throw less int by far..

And it's not just about completion %. It's that other guys have other attributes. They can either run, or they're smarter with the football etc.

Talk about potential all you want but he produces like an average QB.

His completion percentage is 1.5% less than Peyton edit: in his first 61 games: finish edit, and he was asked to throw much more often. I picked Comp % because that seems to be your hot button issue with him. I agree he is producing like an average QB. I'm just saying that at that position, there is a history of improvement with age and maturity.

I think he is going to be more like Favre than any of these others anyway. Favre had a career 62.0% comp. I'd be OK with that. I don't think you will.

 

[LKP]

Stafford did enough for low 61 62comp percentage which is good enough with that many yards first downs and tds. He could have been mid 60s or higher with some more touch. And 3 percent less drops.

We will see if a new coach can reign him in and if reigning him in helps or hurt our ability to move the ball and score points

 

[LKP]

Plus of course there will be other factors. Stafford could play exactly the same but look much better without 9 percent drops and having wrs get more separation. A good number 2 wr will do wonders. Number one need

 

[grandy]

That's why this hire is extremely crucial for this team and more importantly, Stafford. I'd be very happy to see Whisenhunt, Roman, or Lovie/Tedford here, someone who can both run the show and work with Stafford.