The Official Notre Dame vs ][V][ichigan Game Thread

[gotime909]

Patterson isn't a grad transfer. He's a normal transfer that didn't have to sit out a year, because his former team cheated and lied to him.

Could be said that those lying, cheating coaches ended up being a blessing for him. Allowed for him to transfer at no year penalty instead of sitting the bench at Ole Miss this year. I doubt he was gonna beat out Jordan Ta?amu.

 

[wlvrnstlr4life]

The penalty on Winovich was borderline. He was in the process of making the hit when Wimbush threw the ball. The hit came maybe 1-2 seconds after the release. If you have a running QB they are going to get hit and you have to give some leeway. If Winovich had held up and Wimbush had pulled the ball down and run, Winovich woud be roasted. I have no problem with Winovich's play. He is aggressive but smart about it, unlike Metellus.

The penalty on Winovich was NOT 1-2 sec after Wimbush threw it. The replay was in slo-mo and the announcers counted 1-2 seconds during the slo-mo replay. That was a wham bam play that should not have been called. That was all the refs keeping the defense on the field. That would have been a 4th down if not for the ticky tack call.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I know. But zero last year ?

This defense is suppose to be all world ?

It?s a different game.....holding teams to 10 or less is going to be rare for ANYONE......especially against solid competition. It?s a wide open, fast paced first to 50 world in college football. The days of running the ball 400 times a year are gone for most schools.

A good D.....which Michigan has....is a defense that will allow about 20/game against solid competition.

 

[biggunsbob]

It’s a different game.....holding teams to 10 or less is going to be rare for ANYONE......especially against solid competition. It’s a wide open, fast paced first to 50 world in college football. The days of running the ball 400 times a year are gone for most schools.

A good D.....which Michigan has....is a defense that will allow about 20/game against solid competition.

They did it 6 times in Jim's first year.
They did it five times in his second and held two trams right at ten. . They were 13-0 in those games.
This all world defsnse did it zero times last season and I get what your saying but the bend but dont break defense should be in play . Hold teams to fg attempts, ect, etc. Make the number 15 then . Points allowed . It can be done stop teams from scoring if your defense is that world.

 

[hungry]

Who would have thought Lloyd Carr would have more imagination on offense then Jim.

He really didn't. He just had good o-lines. You don't remember; run left, run left, run left, punt? or "Throw the ball, Lloyd!!" until they were down to good teams by 3 scores in the 4th quarter, then the O would take off?

They had really good O-lines, good running backs, good wide receivers, and good QB's. I'm not really sure this team has that.

Even some years, like with Navarre his first couple of years, the offense was pretty shitty.

 

[hungry]

The penalty on Winovich was NOT 1-2 sec after Wimbush threw it. The replay was in slo-mo and the announcers counted 1-2 seconds during the slo-mo replay. That was a wham bam play that should not have been called. That was all the refs keeping the defense on the field. That would have been a 4th down if not for the ticky tack call.

I disagree. I thought it was obvious roughing and completely unnecessary.

 

[wlvrnstlr4life]

I disagree. I thought it was obvious roughing and completely unnecessary.

Seeing it in real time, I thought it should have been a no call. He was already in the act of a tackle before the throw. Every time the Dame fans oohed and ahhed after a hit, it amplified the effect of every hit near the sideline or near the quarterback. Those fans thought Michigan should have been called for 15 after every hit. It was pathetic.

 

[tinselwolverine]

He really didn't. He just had good o-lines. You don't remember; run left, run left, run left, punt?

Oh, I remember a touchdown or two mixed in there.

His teams won five conference championships in 13 years; he's been gone almost that long and his successors are batting .000.

He must have done something right.

 

[biggunsbob]

He really didn't. He just had good o-lines. You don't remember; run left, run left, run left, punt? or "Throw the ball, Lloyd!!" until they were down to good teams by 3 scores in the 4th quarter, then the O would take off?

They had really good O-lines, good running backs, good wide receivers, and good QB's. I'm not really sure this team has that.

Even some years, like with Navarre his first couple of years, the offense was pretty shitty.

I just watched replays of some games in 1997
Do you remember the pass back to Brian Griese
, and drew Henson .
I think Brady even had one lol. .I think he did it more then we remember but I also remember Great lines and really decent running backs.

 

[biggunsbob]

Oh, I remember a touchdown or two mixed in there.

His teams won five conference championships in 13 years; he's been gone almost that long and his successors are batting .000.

He must have done something right.

Yup. I miss those days and one national title.

 

[hungry]

Seeing it in real time, I thought it should have been a no call. He was already in the act of a tackle before the throw. Every time the Dame fans oohed and ahhed after a hit, it amplified the effect of every hit near the sideline or near the quarterback. Those fans thought Michigan should have been called for 15 after every hit. It was pathetic.

You have to be able to lay off. Doesn't matter if you are in the act of tackling 2-3 steps away before he throws the ball. You act like he made contact before the ball got away. He didn't. A good d-lineman has to be able to pull himself back when he sees that ball go. It was roughing the passer. Now, ND roughed the Michigan QB a few times where it wasn't called, but on that play, he should've pulled back. It was obvious to him that the ball was away and he just wanted to lay a hit in on the QB. You can't do that in today's football.

 

[hungry]

Oh, I remember a touchdown or two mixed in there.

His teams won five conference championships in 13 years; he's been gone almost that long and his successors are batting .000.

He must have done something right.

He did a lot of things right and he had a lot of 8-3 seasons where today's fans would be yelling and screaming.

This was in direct response to the thing about him having a more imaginative offense.

He did a lot of things right by having good o-lines, good running backs, good QB's, and good wide receivers. He had good defenses. He had some years where you just scratched your head. People think back and say things about how he was super great and nothing ever went wrong during his tenure.

Navarre was piss poor his first 2 years and he was dang good his last season. Lloyd played Drew Henson over Tom Brady. Let's not act like everything was made of gold back then.

Lloyd, also, won a big ten title in 2003 and 2004, then shit the bed the very next year and went 7-5. Then had a very good year in 2006. Then in 2007, Michigan got beat by App St and got blown the F out against Oregon, limped to 8-4. That team was supposed to be the best team ever. No one has ever feared playing Michigan again ever since those first 2 games in 2007...

 

[tinselwolverine]

He did a lot of things right and he had a lot of 8-3 seasons where today's fans would be yelling and screaming.

This was in direct response to the thing about him having a more imaginative offense.

He did a lot of things right by having good o-lines, good running backs, good QB's, and good wide receivers. He had good defenses. He had some years where you just scratched your head. People think back and say things about how he was super great and nothing ever went wrong during his tenure.

Navarre was piss poor his first 2 years and he was dang good his last season. Lloyd played Drew Henson over Tom Brady. Let's not act like everything was made of gold back then.

Lloyd, also, won a big ten title in 2003 and 2004, then shit the bed the very next year and went 7-5. Then had a very good year in 2006. Then in 2007, Michigan got beat by App St and got blown the F out against Oregon, limped to 8-4. That team was supposed to be the best team ever. No one has ever feared playing Michigan again ever since those first 2 games in 2007...

I see what you're saying but what you're describing is good execution...if you have generally good execution how important is imagination?

With good execution, imagination might actually result in one shooting one's self in the foot.

All of the best teams have their ups and downs - nobody is great every single season.

During Carr's tenure, only LSU, USC, Florida and Nebraska won or shared more national championships than Michigan.

All of those - and obviously, every other team that won or shared one single national championship during that period - had seasons during that period which could be described as having "shit the bed."

 

[hungry]

I see what you're saying but what you're describing is good execution...if you have generally good execution how important is imagination?

With good execution, imagination might actually result in one shooting one's self in the foot.

All of the best teams have their ups and downs - nobody is great every single season.

During Carr's tenure, only LSU, USC, Florida and Nebraska won or shared more national championships than Michigan.

All of those - and obviously, every other team that won or shared one single national championship during that period - had seasons during that period which could be described as having "shit the bed."

I'm trying to focus on exactly what he said, not all of this side stuff you're bringing up on how successful Carr was in a totally different era. Carr's offenses were not imaginative. Whether they needed to be or were successful is a completely different argument.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

Seeing it in real time, I thought it should have been a no call. He was already in the act of a tackle before the throw. Every time the Dame fans oohed and ahhed after a hit, it amplified the effect of every hit near the sideline or near the quarterback. Those fans thought Michigan should have been called for 15 after every hit. It was pathetic.

It was borderline. He was in the act of making the hit when the ball was thrown. A defensive player in the backfield fighting through blocks and coming free and in the process of hitting the QB can't be expected to just to just stop. It wasn't a malicious hit. I think it should have been a no call. The ND players were playing up every hit. It was like they were like soccer players. Embarrassing, and I hate to see that kind of thing infect football! Also, with a QB that is a threat to run the refs have to give some in terms of hits on the QB in the backfield.

Metellus' hit was dirty and completely unnecessary. It was purposeful with intention do injury to the receiver. Winovich is not a dirty player.

 

[hungry]

I try to imagine what is going through these guy's minds. To me, it was obvious that Winovich knew the ball was away and he hit him anyway. That is going to draw a flag. Even a couple of other times, I saw Gary and Winovich lay a hit on the QB where it was obvious to them that the ball was away and they didn't get flagged. If you see the ball get thrown, don't lay that shoulder or throw that shove. This is what the game is today, whether we like it or not.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

I try to imagine what is going through these guy's minds. To me, it was obvious that Winovich knew the ball was away and he hit him anyway. That is going to draw a flag. Even a couple of other times, I saw Gary and Winovich lay a hit on the QB where it was obvious to them that the ball was away and they didn't get flagged. If you see the ball get thrown, don't lay that shoulder or throw that shove. This is what the game is today, whether we like it or not.

In the confusion that is the backfield in the process of a passing play what you are saying is unrealistic. What is in their minds is getting free and getting to the ball. The hit was borderline, it was not a dirty hit.

 

[hungry]

Well, if it was borderline, then it is too close. This is them playing at ND. Borderline is going to get called.

Yes, i am asking they be aware of what is going on.

The QB has to have the ball in order for you to be free to hit him. I think you are imagining that we are in what was football 30 years ago. Those days are gone and it's only going to get more and more like what I am talking about.

 

[Spartanmack]

In the confusion that is the backfield in the process of a passing play what you are saying is unrealistic. What is in their minds is getting free and getting to the ball. The hit was borderline, it was not a dirty hit.

I think part of the problem was he lead with the crown of his helmet and drilled him in the back. If he runs into him chest first and doesn't crush him, esp if he tries to stop, it probably doesn't get called. He's lucky, he could have been called for targetting and gotten tossed.

 

[tinselwolverine]

I'm trying to focus on exactly what he said, not all of this side stuff you're bringing up on how successful Carr was in a totally different era. Carr's offenses were not imaginative. Whether they needed to be or were successful is a completely different argument.

You're right.

It was a totally different era.

For example, Urban Meyer, who is the head coach of a top 5 ranked team this season never coached a team to a national championship during Carr's tenure at Michigan; and also Nick Saban, who is I believe the head coach of the #1 ranked team in the nation right now also never coached a team to a national championship during Carr's tenure at Michigan.

Also when Carr coached at Michigan, they wore leather helmets and there were no face guards.

Totally different era.

Totally.