Tigers looking at Mark Buerhle

[mhughes0021]

Id be fine with using porcello as a trade piece if we got buerhle for a 2B/3B. Im over ricky and his 4 decent innings then one 4 run inning.

 

[kalinecountry]

http://motorcitybengals.com/2011/11/29/i....for-the-tigers/
Is Mark Buehrle A Good Idea For The Tigers?
from mcb-tb

 

[kingofdetroit57]

KalineCountry[/color]]

But I thought they'd never consider trading away such a talent.

I have been a fan of this kid since the first time I saw him play.
Wouldn't want to trade Jackson for now for his defense, but have no idea what they would want in players for him Tigers 25 man or top prospects.

http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2011/11/28/2594793/pirate-rumors-mccutchen-not-untouchable
McCutcheon not untouchable.
from mlbdailydish

Same here. He's a heck of a player and is exactly what we need on this team. I only mentioned Jackson because it'd seem likely they'd want a cheap young replacement CF in return. It'd be even better if we didn't have to give him up and could use both in the OF here, but McCutcheon's bat probably isn't powerful enough for a corner OF spot. Then again, who cares if you're getting power from other unconventional positions like Peralta at SS or Avila behind the plate? Could you imagine the defense of McCutcheon/Jackson/Boesch though? Wow... that'd be awesome.

 

[kalinecountry]

KalineCountry[/color]]

I have been a fan of this kid since the first time I saw him play.
Wouldn't want to trade Jackson for now for his defense, but have no idea what they would want in players for him Tigers 25 man or top prospects.

http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2011/11/28/2594793/pirate-rumors-mccutchen-not-untouchable
McCutcheon not untouchable.
from mlbdailydish

Same here. He's a heck of a player and is exactly what we need on this team. I only mentioned Jackson because it'd seem likely they'd want a cheap young replacement CF in return. It'd be even better if we didn't have to give him up and could use both in the OF here, but McCutcheon's bat probably isn't powerful enough for a corner OF spot. Then again, who cares if you're getting power from other unconventional positions like Peralta at SS or Avila behind the plate? Could you imagine the defense of McCutcheon/Jackson/Boesch though? Wow... that'd be awesome.

It's understandable that many don't want corner outfielders that lack power, with past mention of trading for brett gardner, but with players like these at the top of the order with better obp, the rest of the lineup can bring them around the bases.
For too many years, Tigers have had too many of the free swing bash dead pull power players without trying to get through any of the draft, FA, trades for players that have good plate discipline, pitch recognition, and hit to all fields go with pitch on the outside of the plate to the opposite field.

 

[tomdalton22]

KalineCountry[/color]]

I have been a fan of this kid since the first time I saw him play.
Wouldn't want to trade Jackson for now for his defense, but have no idea what they would want in players for him Tigers 25 man or top prospects.

http://www.mlbdailydish.com/2011/11/28/2594793/pirate-rumors-mccutchen-not-untouchable
McCutcheon not untouchable.
from mlbdailydish

Same here. He's a heck of a player and is exactly what we need on this team. I only mentioned Jackson because it'd seem likely they'd want a cheap young replacement CF in return. It'd be even better if we didn't have to give him up and could use both in the OF here, but McCutcheon's bat probably isn't powerful enough for a corner OF spot. Then again, who cares if you're getting power from other unconventional positions like Peralta at SS or Avila behind the plate? Could you imagine the defense of McCutcheon/Jackson/Boesch though? Wow... that'd be awesome.

That would be a great defensive OF but I would prefer that they use their assets to create a good defensive infield which is much more important.

 

[tomdalton22]

Id be fine with using porcello as a trade piece if we got buerhle for a 2B/3B. Im over ricky and his 4 decent innings then one 4 run inning.

Porcello is 22 years old. I for one am not ready to give up on him.

 

[kalinecountry]

Jason Beck checked back with Dombrowski with the Mark Buerhle interest.
http://beck.mlblogs.com/2011/11/29/is-mark-buehrle-a-fit-in-detroit/
Is Mark Buerhle a fit in Detroit.
from Jason Beck's Tigers blog

 

[jimrice]

Id be fine with using porcello as a trade piece if we got buerhle for a 2B/3B. Im over ricky and his 4 decent innings then one 4 run inning.

Porcello is 22 years old. I for one am not ready to give up on him.

Plus, Porcello is not at peak value. May as well see what he does in 2012 and then evaluate.

He's young, but he's also plateaued, it seems. This might be all he is.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

Same here. He's a heck of a player and is exactly what we need on this team. I only mentioned Jackson because it'd seem likely they'd want a cheap young replacement CF in return. It'd be even better if we didn't have to give him up and could use both in the OF here, but McCutcheon's bat probably isn't powerful enough for a corner OF spot. Then again, who cares if you're getting power from other unconventional positions like Peralta at SS or Avila behind the plate? Could you imagine the defense of McCutcheon/Jackson/Boesch though? Wow... that'd be awesome.

That would be a great defensive OF but I would prefer that they use their assets to create a good defensive infield which is much more important.

I agree, but there isn't a lot out there to help on the infield. I'd be all for trading for a guy like Phillips, but outside of him there aren't a lot of great 2B/3B who are productive, young and cheap. I'd personally rather sign ARam for up to 3yrs and hope Castellanos is gonna be our guy at 3B, then upgrade in the OF or 2B with a guy like McCutcheon or Phillips.

 

[Rebbiv]

That would be a great defensive OF but I would prefer that they use their assets to create a good defensive infield which is much more important.

I agree, but there isn't a lot out there to help on the infield. I'd be all for trading for a guy like Phillips, but outside of him there aren't a lot of great 2B/3B who are productive, young and cheap. I'd personally rather sign ARam for up to 3yrs and hope Castellanos is gonna be our guy at 3B, then upgrade in the OF or 2B with a guy like McCutcheon or Phillips.

Last 3 years Away

Zobrist (30) 100.37 RC/650 .834 OPS

M. Izturis (31) 91.17 RC/650 .791 OPS

Carroll (38) 88.52 RC/650 .760 OPS

K. Johnson (30) 82.12 RC/650 .738 OPS

Kendrick (28) 80.00 RC/650 .755 OPS

Infante (30) 78.22 RC/650 .737 OPS

B. Phillips (30) 76.36 RC/650 .739 OPS


3B

Reynolds (28) 95.36 RC/650 .817 OPS

Headley (27) 93.71 RC/650 .804 OPS

Encarnacion (29) 79.41 RC/650 .755 OPS

Callaspo (28) 78.05 RC/650 .733 OPS

A. Ramirez (33) 76.73 RC/650 .738 OPS

I. Stewart (26) 75.30 RC/650 .729 OPS



McCutchen (25) 94.32 RC/650 .792 OPS

Gardner (28) 85.14 RC/650 .727 OPS



Signing Brandon Phillips or Aramis Ramirez does nothing for this team except drastically up the payroll.


As a side note, what I am hearing, is there is a good possiblity that Castellanos becomes a corner OFer. With that in mind, trading for someone like Headley would really be nice.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I know we look at away numbers but who is to say a player who hits well at home, gets traded can't hit well at his new home? Is there proof, for example, that K. Johnson's .738 OPS is what he'd hit at Comerica Park?

 

[spockmaster]

you cant say for sure, but 3 years of away data is usually a decent predictor.

 

[Mitchrapp]

you cant say for sure, but 3 years of away data is usually a decent predictor.

Predictor for what? That a guy hits better in a home park with home cooking and family near by? I think away stats aren't meaningful. How many have hit in Comerica?

 

[tomdalton22]

Mitch[/color]]I know we look at away numbers but who is to say a player who hits well at home, gets traded can't hit well at his new home? Is there proof, for example, that K. Johnson's .738 OPS is what he'd hit at Comerica Park?

I kind of agree with this. There are probably a lot of players that hit better at home because they are more comfortable in their own environment. Looking at away numbers only doesn't make too much sense.

 

[kingofdetroit57]

I agree, but there isn't a lot out there to help on the infield. I'd be all for trading for a guy like Phillips, but outside of him there aren't a lot of great 2B/3B who are productive, young and cheap. I'd personally rather sign ARam for up to 3yrs and hope Castellanos is gonna be our guy at 3B, then upgrade in the OF or 2B with a guy like McCutcheon or Phillips.

Last 3 years Away

Zobrist (30) 100.37 RC/650 .834 OPS

M. Izturis (31) 91.17 RC/650 .791 OPS

Carroll (38) 88.52 RC/650 .760 OPS

K. Johnson (30) 82.12 RC/650 .738 OPS

Kendrick (28) 80.00 RC/650 .755 OPS

Infante (30) 78.22 RC/650 .737 OPS

B. Phillips (30) 76.36 RC/650 .739 OPS


3B

Reynolds (28) 95.36 RC/650 .817 OPS

Headley (27) 93.71 RC/650 .804 OPS

Encarnacion (29) 79.41 RC/650 .755 OPS

Callaspo (28) 78.05 RC/650 .733 OPS

A. Ramirez (33) 76.73 RC/650 .738 OPS

I. Stewart (26) 75.30 RC/650 .729 OPS



McCutchen (25) 94.32 RC/650 .792 OPS

Gardner (28) 85.14 RC/650 .727 OPS



Signing Brandon Phillips or Aramis Ramirez does nothing for this team except drastically up the payroll.


As a side note, what I am hearing, is there is a good possiblity that Castellanos becomes a corner OFer. With that in mind, trading for someone like Headley would really be nice.

Headley would be nice too.

As for the statement that ARam and Phillips would do nothing, I disagree greatly. I don't have the stats and I'm hoping you do, but they'd be replacing Inge and Santiago who have to be far below them stat-wise. I get what you are saying, but you've gotta consider who they'd replace here.

 

[jimrice]

It's just a simple way of making the numbers park neutral. If you were to compare Headley to Ramirez, ARam would look like a vastly superior offensive player. But when you factor in half the games are in the worst park verses one of the best, you get a much better picture.

You can always factor in a guy's comfort level if you prefer, it's just not fair to compare straight up numbers. Wrigley numbers verses Petco is barely even the same game.

To me, it's almost like ignoring right/left spilts, which happens sometimes, too.

 

[Mitchrapp]

It's just a simple way of making the numbers park neutral. If you were to compare Headley to Ramirez, ARam would look like a vastly superior offensive player. But when you factor in half the games are in the worst park verses one of the best, you get a much better picture.

You can always factor in a guy's comfort level if you prefer, it's just not fair to compare straight up numbers. Wrigley numbers verses Petco is barely even the same game.

To me, it's almost like ignoring right/left spilts, which happens sometimes, too.

Maybe I over spoke when I said they were meaningless. But I believe you need to take more into account than road splits. Road splits by themselves doesn't tell me much.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

Away numbers make a ton of sense for in-season trades or one year rentals. Those types of players will be playing away from their normal park while also not likely become comfortable in their new environment right away. However, I think it has less meaning going forward as the park factors themselves. Like it was mentioned, hitting is very likely affected by your mental state. Hitters get hot and cold for a reason.

If we are looking at someone long term, the better indicator of their percentages would be how their home field compares, as a whole, to ours. We actually have a relatively pitcher friendly park because of how much room there is in the outfield. Conversely we have a lower than average HR factor because of those same deep walls. Our field seems skewed towards big power or high contact hitters. Contact hitters will get more hits in the larger outfield gaps, big power is necessary to play longball here.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Gap hitters work great at Comerica.

 

[jimrice]

Mitch[/color]]

It's just a simple way of making the numbers park neutral. If you were to compare Headley to Ramirez, ARam would look like a vastly superior offensive player. But when you factor in half the games are in the worst park verses one of the best, you get a much better picture.

You can always factor in a guy's comfort level if you prefer, it's just not fair to compare straight up numbers. Wrigley numbers verses Petco is barely even the same game.

To me, it's almost like ignoring right/left spilts, which happens sometimes, too.

Maybe I over spoke when I said they were meaningless. But I believe you need to take more into account than road splits. Road splits by themselves doesn't tell me much.

I don't know what you are trying to say. Road stats say exactly what they are intended to say, which is what are the stats when the park is neutral.