Tired of talking about 2013 and before.....

[tonyballs]

Of course he did, he threw the damn ball 45.44 times a game, which is absolutely insane.

You take any QB with any modicum of talent and have them throw it 45 times a game, they'll rack up the yards too. The elite/very good QBs in the NFL threw it substantially less than him, but still had similar yardage totals.

Gotta throw it when you're down or it's a close game though. And in no way is Bush or Bell going to be that bellcow RB you need to seal games.

 

[dubbsco]

His replacement has the exact same description as Raiola. Undersized, not athletic, going to struggle at this level, will survive with his hard work and competitiveness. I don't want to see that for another 12 years.

Yup, I would have. As much as I can't stand that Ebron pick for the position he was taken, taking a backup center who may sit 1-2 years and did not grade well is pretty bad too.

 

[tonyballs]

His replacement has the exact same description as Raiola. Undersized, not athletic, going to struggle at this level, will survive with his hard work and competitiveness. I don't want to see that for another 12 years.

Yup, I would have. As much as I can't stand that Ebron pick for the position he was taken, taking a backup center who may sit 1-2 years and did not grade well is pretty bad too.

Undersized? He's 6'5" 312lbs!! He's a monster!! Does he need to get stronger? Absolutely. But he's far from a Raiola clone IMO. Can't rip on the pick just yet..

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Of course he did, he threw the damn ball 45.44 times a game, which is absolutely insane.

You take any QB with any modicum of talent and have them throw it 45 times a game, they'll rack up the yards too. The elite/very good QBs in the NFL threw it substantially less than him, but still had similar yardage totals.

Tom Brady threw it 6 fewer times than Stafford last year...... For 300 fewer yards and 4 fewer TD's.

I'd say Brady has a modicum of talent.

Guess he has trouble making players better.

 

[dubbsco]

I thought we were referring to the year when Calvin got his 2000 yards, 2012? That's what I was focused on.

It was also one of Tom Brady's worst year's statistically, and still basically measures up to Stafford.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I thought we were referring to the year when Calvin got his 2000 yards, 2012? That's what I was focused on.

It was also one of Tom Brady's worst year's statistically, and still basically measures up to Stafford.

Ahhh, my bad then.

 

[inkfreq]

It was a joke based on the fact that you hate Pettigrew and think he sucks, a "blue chip" first round tight end when he was drafted. I am not funny, my jokes go over people's head. Duly noted.

Actually, now that you point it out, I feel pretty stupid I didn't get it.

Your right, I pretty well hate Pettigrew, and I've been all too vocal about it. I really should have picked up on your sarcasm.

But really, I am not sure I dislike any other first round pick except Droptimus Prime. So I can say for sure, Mayhew's track record with Tight Ends leaves a damned lot to be desired. Let's hope Ebron is the "pass catcher" he claims to be, and not a tight end, or we're hosed on that pick.

 

[dubbsco]

The attempts came down this year because at least there was a decent threat of a running attack. They need to come down further. If this guy does get it together and lives up to his draft billing, Lions don't need him to have a noodle arm in 5 years because he threw it 45-50 times a game. That's just too much.

 

[LKP]

I thought we were referring to the year when Calvin got his 2000 yards, 2012? That's what I was focused on.

It was also one of Tom Brady's worst year's statistically, and still basically measures up to Stafford.

What's wrong with 2012?

Fun facts, the Lions had 0 def/special team TDs, they had only 8 good rushing days, not 10 like 2013 and they had 5 less turnovers forced in 2012 (only 17). The Lions actually scored 4 more offensive points in 2012. 39 TDs plus 32 field goals out of 38 attempts (thanks Hanson). Compared to 44 TDs and only 19 FGs(24 attempts) in 2013. Young over more Durham, Pettigrew more targets and Broyles a little healthier made a difference along with a healthier Calvin playing all 16 games.

2012 and 2013 the offense scored with little help. Funny a 20 TD season by Stafford is better than a 29 TD season. And they are both good considering the work he had to do with long drives, 31 fumbles combined in 2 seasons and no other scoring help.

 

[cheeno]

Actually, now that you point it out, I feel pretty stupid I didn't get it.

Your right, I pretty well hate Pettigrew, and I've been all too vocal about it. I really should have picked up on your sarcasm.

But really, I am not sure I dislike any other first round pick except Droptimus Prime. So I can say for sure, Mayhew's track record with Tight Ends leaves a damned lot to be desired. Let's hope Ebron is the "pass catcher" he claims to be, and not a tight end, or we're hosed on that pick.

No worries, you made some good arguments defending the whiffed sarcasm. Not the least the argument that they had him so highly rated. Not just rated as a top prospect but thee top prospect (1 of 4...Clowney, Mack, Watkins). That may explain them rushing to the podium to call his name. On the other hand this may be a bit of overcompensation from the criticism they received not only from the media but within the fan base. The old Jim Caldwell 1A.

 

[dubbsco]

Ummm... They went 4-12 in 2012, maybe that's what was wrong??!!

 

[boogerlovejoy]

What's wrong with 2012?

Fun facts, the Lions had 0 def/special team TDs, they had only 8 good rushing days, not 10 like 2013 and they had 5 less turnovers forced in 2012 (only 17). The Lions actually scored 4 more offensive points in 2012. 39 TDs plus 32 field goals out of 38 attempts (thanks Hanson). Compared to 44 TDs and only 19 FGs(24 attempts) in 2013. Young over more Durham, Pettigrew more targets and Broyles a little healthier made a difference along with a healthier Calvin playing all 16 games.

2012 and 2013 the offense scored with little help. Funny a 20 TD season by Stafford is better than a 29 TD season. And they are both good considering the work he had to do with long drives, 31 fumbles combined in 2 seasons and no other scoring help.

Everything you post you've said 100X before. Just shut up.

 

[inkfreq]

No worries, you made some good arguments defending the whiffed sarcasm. Not the least the argument that they had him so highly rated. Not just rated as a top prospect but thee top prospect (1 of 4...Clowney, Mack, Watkins). That may explain them rushing to the podium to call his name. On the other hand this may be a bit of overcompensation from the criticism they received not only from the media but within the fan base. The old Jim Caldwell 1A.

I don't think so. There were reports before the draft that the Lions saw him as one of the very few elite prospects in the draft. ESPN even had the Lions taking Ebron in the first round in their rumors page, citing Lombardi's infatuation with him.

It seems legit that they rated him as one of the four players in the draft they were willing to trade up to take, so if he's there at #10, you have no reason to trade back, you just get your guy.

Again, I have no idea if he's all that. I don't watch UNC football at all. His highlight reel is impressive to be sure, and I saw some amazing grabs, but he also had an 11.4% drop rate, which is way too high to say the least.

By the same token, drop rates are very subjective. Depending on which stat sites you look at, Calvin Johnson has either a 5.1% drop rate or a 10.6% drop rate last year.

I sure wouldn't trade Calvin away because of his drop rate, that's for sure.

I just don't know what we're getting in this guy, but I know the Lions wanted him pretty badly, so I have zero issues with the time on the clock when they made the pick. I would have a bigger problem with them eating 5 minutes off the clock working potential trade-backs.

If your guy is there, you turn the pick in. You get too fancy, try to move around for value, and he may be gone with the very next pick. You just don't do it.

 

[dubbsco]

Ink why would you have a problem with them using the clock to explore options? I have a problem that they didn't. If the time expires, and you didn't hear anything that you wanted, you still have your guy. There was absolutely 0 harm in hearing other teams out and maybe getting an offer that surprises you. I'm not with you on that part.

That's the whole purpose of the clock. Good GMs evaluate every nook and cranny while they have time. If it doesn't work out and you don't get a decent offer, you can still hand the commish a card that says "Eric Ebron." No one is insulted that you took time to listen.

I don't think there is a single draft pick in the NFL that is upset you took time before drafting. I think it's actually poor business to run that card up to the front like your pants are on fire. It reeks of Millen, smartest cat in the room.

 

[inkfreq]

Because I have seen too many times when teams get too fancy, nibble around with offers, and lose the guy they wanted.

Listening to offers when you have the last of four guys you really wanted on the board means you are considering trading back and still trying to get your guys. Either that, or you are willing to stockpile picks to get less quality.

Mayhew said before the draft that he was intent on landing one of the elite prospects. So we have to assume listening to offers means he thinks he can move back and still get Ebron.

Don't bother getting fancy. You have your primary targets set. One of them is still on the board. Turn in the pick and be extremely thankful one of your four guys fell to #10.

I'm not big on beating around the bush in life, or in the draft. You have the guy you want in your lap, grab him and buy yourself a steak and a beer. Job well done. You accomplished your mission, and didn't break a sweat doing it.

 

[dubbsco]

You have? Not to be a jerk, but do you really know what is going on in those rooms while they are discussing this stuff?

Ink, teams trade down all the time. I would much rather have seen this Lions team trade back, end up with a defensive prospect and another 2nd round pick vs the guy that they took in the top 10.

I'll be honest, and maybe this is just my blinders speaking, but whenever I watch the entire first round, I see most of the teams using the majority of the clock. I know this because I get irritated with it taking so long. And then the Lions roll up, and they don't even have time to flash the Lion logo before it says "Pick is in." To me, that's piss poor management. If you don't hear something that works, you still have your guy. He won't know the difference. It's just doing your due diligence. That is what being an owner/manager is all about.

 

[inkfreq]

You have? Not to be a jerk, but do you really know what is going on in those rooms while they are discussing this stuff?

Ink, teams trade down all the time. I would much rather have seen this Lions team trade back, end up with a defensive prospect and another 2nd round pick vs the guy that they took in the top 10.

I'll be honest, and maybe this is just my blinders speaking, but whenever I watch the entire first round, I see most of the teams using the majority of the clock. I know this because I get irritated with it taking so long. And then the Lions roll up, and they don't even have time to flash the Lion logo before it says "Pick is in." To me, that's piss poor management. If you don't hear something that works, you still have your guy. He won't know the difference. It's just doing your due diligence. That is what being an owner/manager is all about.

Disagree entirely bro. You have millions of dollars invested in scouting reports, draft grades, video footage, plane rides to see pro days, plane rides to fly guys in for interviews, hotels, dinners, car rentals, computer analytics, all leading up to one 7 minute clock.

By the time you get to that pick, you better know who you like and who you don't. And when that blue chip guy, that game changing elite prospect is there for you, you trust that your investment has paid off and you're getting the guy you wanted all along.

Like I said, Mayhew was adamant that he was landing one of those four guys, one way or another. He missed on the deal for Watkins, since the Bills paid a fortune. Clowney and Mack were never in play for a trade at a price he could afford.

There's no "due dilligence" left to be done. If you trade back, you've pissed your draft day goals away. You don't land your guy. Nope.. I say waste no time, and go get your player.

 

[dubbsco]

I respect your opinion, but we just have a fundamental disagreement about it. All of that research, prepping, homework can vanish in the blink of an eye with the draft order, and offers that other teams may throw you. Being a GM in the NFL requires the ability to evaluate deals that may come out of nowhere, but be a better deal than you ever thought. Teams behind you in the draft may have their guy still on the board, and flip a nut about trading up to get him. That is why teams give up a motherload to move up a measly 4-5 spots.

New England is a team that comes to mind for me. It seems every year they are always looking to trade out of their spot and move down to acquire more picks. That's a franchise that I wish the Lions would model.

The draft is an unpredictable thing. You have to have people ready to hear things on the table that you aren't prepared for, and may potentially alter your franchise in a way you didn't think possible. That's why you are given the time to evaluate the pick. If it doesn't work out, then you proceed as planned. Millen used to do this crap with picking after 2 minutes and not letting the clock run. There's 0 harm in it.

 

[inkfreq]

I respect your opinion, but we just have a fundamental disagreement about it. All of that research, prepping, homework can vanish in the blink of an eye with the draft order, and offers that other teams may throw you. Being a GM in the NFL requires the ability to evaluate deals that may come out of nowhere, but be a better deal than you ever thought. Teams behind you in the draft may have their guy still on the board, and flip a nut about trading up to get him. That is why teams give up a motherload to move up a measly 4-5 spots.

New England is a team that comes to mind for me. It seems every year they are always looking to trade out of their spot and move down to acquire more picks. That's a franchise that I wish the Lions would model.

The draft is an unpredictable thing. You have to have people ready to hear things on the table that you aren't prepared for, and may potentially alter your franchise in a way you didn't think possible. That's why you are given the time to evaluate the pick. If it doesn't work out, then you proceed as planned. Millen used to do this crap with picking after 2 minutes and not letting the clock run. There's 0 harm in it.

No, I hear ya man. I certainly respect what you're saying, I just disagree.

The Pats do seem to move back a lot. And look at what they get for it. They get some successes, but they bust twice as much too.

And you're right, most teams fiddle around on the phones listening to what's out there. And you're also right that Millen made his picks damned fast.

But we know for fact the Lions were on the phone discussing possibilities from the jump. They talked to Houston about the #1 picks. They discussed the #2 pick. They were on the phone about the #4 and #5 picks. We know these things for fact.

I would say by the time the #10 pick came due, they had a pretty good feel for what was being floated, and by whom, and made their pick.

And if they had no clue, oh well. They got the guy they wanted. I just have zero issue with it.

Had they traded back to #14, and Ebron was picked at #11, they'd be kicking themselves in the ass for missing on one of the elites when he fell into their lap. Could they have called around some more? Sure. But should they? Completely an opinion call there, and I agree with just turning in the pick and celebrating.

 

[dubbsco]

Makes sense to me, can't argue with what you are putting out there!