2016 Draft- Who ya got?

[tbone413]

I saw a report today of Stafford clamoring to keep Cooter. All this talk is moot until we get a GM....and while I agree Stafford has been improved since Coots took over....I just don't know how a new GM can look his guy for HC in the eye and say "thanks for taking the job but ive already hired your OC." It just doesn't work out that way unless we get some sort of Gase type HC that establishes his own system and cooter is just kept on as OC to be a glorified QB coach because a guy like Gase doesn't really have a staff of his own.

If im chosing id rather have a proven coach come in here with a couple guys under his wing that hes comfortable with already and can establish a new culture moving forward. We tried the "throw a bunch of shit against a wall and see if it sticks" thing with Caldwell.....I think we can all agree it was a mistake.

While I agree that its hard for a GM to force a new coaches hand when it comes to selecting his staff/OC, if I was the new coach of the Lions, it would be difficult for me to get rid of Cooter.

Yes, they made a mistake with the Caldwell hiring, and his 'throw shit against the wall' mentality. However, through dumb luck, one of those pieces of shit seems to have stuck to the wall like damn cement. That being Jim Bob Cooter...I dont know if Staffords numbers under him are a Fluke or not, but, hes literally the only turd that has stuck to said wall, and it would be a mistake to power wash his ass out of town with a new HC, in my opinion...

If I was a new HC, I would give him 1 year, see how Stafford progresses. If he regresses and doesn't do well, cut ties with Cooter ASAP and bring in your own guy. Cant have the same long leash Caldwell had with his staff. Just my opinion tho...

 

[tbone413]

he has been very efficient in this stretch of games. Like you said, he has faced some of the worst pass defenses in the league. I think Cooter is asking Stafford to do even less than he was asked to do with Lombardi. I think I saw a stat where Stafford is 31st in the league in passes in the air...something like that. It was in one of these threads.

It's a good thing to ask very little of him. He performs better.

Not calling BS or anything, I am just wondering what that stat even means "Passes in the air"? Is it like, passes 5+ yards or something?

It seems to me like Stafford is taking more shots 10+ yards down the field now, but who knows, I could have a selective memory haha

 

[mhughes0021]

While I agree that its hard for a GM to force a new coaches hand when it comes to selecting his staff/OC, if I was the new coach of the Lions, it would be difficult for me to get rid of Cooter.

Yes, they made a mistake with the Caldwell hiring, and his 'throw shit against the wall' mentality. However, through dumb luck, one of those pieces of shit seems to have stuck to the wall like damn cement. That being Jim Bob Cooter...I dont know if Staffords numbers under him are a Fluke or not, but, hes literally the only turd that has stuck to said wall, and it would be a mistake to power wash his ass out of town with a new HC, in my opinion...

If I was a new HC, I would give him 1 year, see how Stafford progresses. If he regresses and doesn't do well, cut ties with Cooter ASAP and bring in your own guy. Cant have the same long leash Caldwell had with his staff. Just my opinion tho...

that's the problem with Stafford...were still waiting.

first it was injuries
then it was he needed more weapons
then he needed an oline
then he needed 1 more year under Lombardi to understand the system
now he needs 1 more year with a qb coach that has never been an OC before???!!!

Stafford has been the luckiest #1 overall pick in the history of the NFL in that he landed with the Lions....an organization that has always sucked and has never had a gold standard at QB. Therefor the fan base will continue to praise him for being a silver standard and continuously provide the world with excuses as to why he will be better moving forward....but he never is.

He gets so much less negative press than a guy like Cam.

Dude has all the talent in the world but just cant figure it out for 1 reason...or the other reason...or this reason...or that reason....or whatever next years reason is going to be....and that's his legacy.

We can win with Stafford at the helm....I do believe that. But our roster is nowhere close to where it needs to be for that to happen. We proved this year we can not consistently win against good competition and we did have a hard schedule...we knew we were going to have that. We need to improve at almost every position except rb and guard lol. That's what a half decade of mayhew gave us...

and when youre qb cant overcome those deficiencies....it means hes just an ok qb. Hes not great at anything. he doesn't overcome any of those deficiencies. He doesn't make people better. If a team could figure out how to cover Riddick he would have been absolute trash the 2nd half of this year lol...the offense is about as easy right now as you can get. Check your #1 or dump to Riddick...and do it in less than 3 seconds. that's cooters plan...and it has worked against below avg competition.

 

[tbone413]

that's the problem with Stafford...were still waiting.

first it was injuries
then it was he needed more weapons
then he needed an oline
then he needed 1 more year under Lombardi to understand the system
now he needs 1 more year with a qb coach that has never been an OC before???!!!

Stafford has been the luckiest #1 overall pick in the history of the NFL in that he landed with the Lions....an organization that has always sucked and has never had a gold standard at QB. Therefor the fan base will continue to praise him for being a silver standard and continuously provide the world with excuses as to why he will be better moving forward....but he never is.

He gets so much less negative press than a guy like Cam.

Dude has all the talent in the world but just cant figure it out for 1 reason...or the other reason...or this reason...or that reason....or whatever next years reason is going to be....and that's his legacy.

We can win with Stafford at the helm....I do believe that. But our roster is nowhere close to where it needs to be for that to happen. We proved this year we can not consistently win against good competition and we did have a hard schedule...we knew we were going to have that. We need to improve at almost every position except rb and guard lol. That's what a half decade of mayhew gave us...

and when youre qb cant overcome those deficiencies....it means hes just an ok qb. Hes not great at anything. he doesn't overcome any of those deficiencies. He doesn't make people better. If a team could figure out how to cover Riddick he would have been absolute trash the 2nd half of this year lol...the offense is about as easy right now as you can get. Check your #1 or dump to Riddick...and do it in less than 3 seconds. that's cooters plan...

I hear ya. Stafford does have a ton of 'excuses', and I am not sure how many chances he will get with this franchise before they pull the plug. My guess will be one more coach...if he fails with a 3rd coach, then they cut ties and start over.

Biggest thing keeping from thinking he has arrived now, is his 2011 season with Linehan. Killed it that year, damn near everything is the same the following season, and promptly shits the bed for whatever reason...that doesnt make any damn sense to me, and has me wondering if he is just on one of his famous stretches where he looks elite, or if he has 'figured it out'. Im hoping for the later, but expecting the former...

 

[mhughes0021]

I hear ya. Stafford does have a ton of 'excuses', and I am not sure how many chances he will get with this franchise before they pull the plug. My guess will be one more coach...if he fails with a 3rd coach, then they cut ties and start over.

Biggest thing keeping from thinking he has arrived now, is his 2011 season with Linehan. Killed it that year, damn near everything is the same the following season, and promptly shits the bed for whatever reason...that doesnt make any damn sense to me, and has me wondering if he is just on one of his famous stretches where he looks elite, or if he has 'figured it out'. Im hoping for the later, but expecting the former...

My take is schedule played a role...cause like you said...everything was basically the same. Oline was healthy and performing well and we had a good complimentary run game that year. I do think that was the year we saw a drop off in WR talent and Calvin had a couple injuries. But Stafford again couldn't overcome that....

 

[boogerlovejoy]

that's the problem with Stafford...were still waiting.

first it was injuries
then it was he needed more weapons
then he needed an oline
then he needed 1 more year under Lombardi to understand the system
now he needs 1 more year with a qb coach that has never been an OC before???!!!

Stafford has been the luckiest #1 overall pick in the history of the NFL in that he landed with the Lions....an organization that has always sucked and has never had a gold standard at QB. Therefor the fan base will continue to praise him for being a silver standard and continuously provide the world with excuses as to why he will be better moving forward....but he never is.

He gets so much less negative press than a guy like Cam.

Dude has all the talent in the world but just cant figure it out for 1 reason...or the other reason...or this reason...or that reason....or whatever next years reason is going to be....and that's his legacy.

We can win with Stafford at the helm....I do believe that. But our roster is nowhere close to where it needs to be for that to happen. We proved this year we can not consistently win against good competition and we did have a hard schedule...we knew we were going to have that. We need to improve at almost every position except rb and guard lol. That's what a half decade of mayhew gave us...

27 is a bit early to have any kind of legacy.

I see Stafford having an Elway like career. The 2nd half of it will be better than the first. Elway was about 1 INT away from being benched permanently.....and the Broncos even used a 1st rounder on Tommy Maddux.....but things clicked and the team around him also got a lot better.

HOPEFULLY, that happens in Detroit, too.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Matt is what he is. Talented that has stretches of good football that so far hasn't been involved with winning against good teams on the road, I think he has one, and no playoff victories. That's not just Matt, this team is shit.

I don't even mind the passes in air stat, you work your strength. And Matt's strength is short passes..

We just need to beat those good teams more often. I always like to be compare us to the good teams to see how close we are. We aren't close to Arizona.

 

[mhughes0021]

27 is a bit early to have any kind of legacy.

I see Stafford having an Elway like career. The 2nd half of it will be better than the first. Elway was about 1 INT away from being benched permanently.....and the Broncos even used a 1st rounder on Tommy Maddux.....but things clicked and the team around him also got a lot better.

HOPEFULLY, that happens in Detroit, too.

He clearly has the capability of leading a team to wherever they want to go...if the team is good in all 3 facets. Hes not going to lead a team decimated at WR by injuries to wins like Tom Brady does. Hes not going to lead teams to divisional titles with a top 21 offense and poor defense like Aaron Rodgers does.

Say if like a Houston got Stafford....he could lead that team to divisional wins over Luck for the next 5 years cause Indys defense is so bad and the rest of the division is so terrible. KC would be a great place to be for a qb over the next 5 years with Manning and Rivers on the tail end of their careers.

Detroit is about to go thru a complete overhaul....again. Honestly, Stafford needs to decide if he wants to be a part of that or not. We should use him as a piece to rebuild because we wont get anyone better than him....with that said hes probably not worth the money hes making due to the production weve seen. But it is what it is.

We need upgrades at almost every position on the defense lol.
We need a LT so Reiff can be an upgrade at RT.
We need an upgrade at C or need to see Swanson progress.
Its too early to replace Warford or Tomlinson but they aren't playing very well...probably because Swanson and the rotating RT situation has been such a mess.
WR has no depth after calvin/Tate. TJ Jones is serviceable at best. We have no idea if Calvin will be able to produce or the status of his contract situation.

RB, Guard and starting QB are probably the only 2 positions we don't need an immediate upgrade.

 

[mhughes0021]

Matt is what he is. Talented that has stretches of good football that so far hasn't been involved with winning against good teams on the road, I think he has one, and no playoff victories. That's not just Matt, this team is shit.

I don't even mind the passes in air stat, you work your strength. And Matt's strength is short passes..

We just need to beat those good teams more often. I always like to be compare us to the good teams to see how close we are. We aren't close to Arizona.

I compared us to Arizona about 5 years ago...we always seemed to end up with similar records and we even played each other what seemed like 4 years in a row. They hired a good coach and worked on getting a consistent top performing defense by drafting well. We didn't. They went up...we went down.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

that's the problem with Stafford...were still waiting.

first it was injuries
then it was he needed more weapons
then he needed an oline
then he needed 1 more year under Lombardi to understand the system
now he needs 1 more year with a qb coach that has never been an OC before???!!!

Stafford has been the luckiest #1 overall pick in the history of the NFL in that he landed with the Lions....an organization that has always sucked and has never had a gold standard at QB. Therefor the fan base will continue to praise him for being a silver standard and continuously provide the world with excuses as to why he will be better moving forward....but he never is.

He gets so much less negative press than a guy like Cam.

Dude has all the talent in the world but just cant figure it out for 1 reason...or the other reason...or this reason...or that reason....or whatever next years reason is going to be....and that's his legacy.

We can win with Stafford at the helm....I do believe that. But our roster is nowhere close to where it needs to be for that to happen. We proved this year we can not consistently win against good competition and we did have a hard schedule...we knew we were going to have that. We need to improve at almost every position except rb and guard lol. That's what a half decade of mayhew gave us...

and when youre qb cant overcome those deficiencies....it means hes just an ok qb. Hes not great at anything. he doesn't overcome any of those deficiencies. He doesn't make people better. If a team could figure out how to cover Riddick he would have been absolute trash the 2nd half of this year lol...the offense is about as easy right now as you can get. Check your #1 or dump to Riddick...and do it in less than 3 seconds. that's cooters plan...and it has worked against below avg competition.

To be honest QBs need many things to be successful in this league. It will never be as simple as saying the QB makes everyone better. It's not true.

QBs need at least 3 of the following to do well:

- Good + O-Line
- Good Defense
- Good Running Game
- Consistent Coaching
- Good Receivers

If you look at the successful QBs, the Franchise studs. These guys always have 3 of those checked off.

 

[tomdalton22]

Not calling BS or anything, I am just wondering what that stat even means "Passes in the air"? Is it like, passes 5+ yards or something?

It seems to me like Stafford is taking more shots 10+ yards down the field now, but who knows, I could have a selective memory haha

I just found it in an article from the other CJ thread.

"Once known for their explosive offense, the Lions have become more of a dink and dunk team of late.

Matthew Stafford ranks eighth in the NFL in passing yards (3,409), but just 21st in air yards (the distance his completions travel in the air), according to SportingCharts.com.

At just 3.09 air yards per attempt, Stafford ranks 31st among starting quarterbacks, ahead of only the Philadelphia Eagles' Sam Bradford (3.0) and well below leaders Carson Palmer (5.63), Ben Roethlisberger (5.31) and Cam Newton (5.08)."

 

[boogerlovejoy]

I just found it in an article from the other CJ thread.

"Once known for their explosive offense, the Lions have become more of a dink and dunk team of late.

Matthew Stafford ranks eighth in the NFL in passing yards (3,409), but just 21st in air yards (the distance his completions travel in the air), according to SportingCharts.com.

At just 3.09 air yards per attempt, Stafford ranks 31st among starting quarterbacks, ahead of only the Philadelphia Eagles' Sam Bradford (3.0) and well below leaders Carson Palmer (5.63), Ben Roethlisberger (5.31) and Cam Newton (5.08)."

I wonder what the difference between Lombardi and Cooter is, if any.

Either way, PART of that is because we have Riddick, who may be the best pass catching back in the NFL.

 

[tonyballs]

Waiting for Stafford? Waiting for what?? He is what he is, but he's not the problem on this team. He's good enough to win. And so fkn what if he needs some help?? Most teams do. No OLine, no running game, suspect defense most of the year. Too many other holes besides Stafford. Of course he gets some of the blame but i feel he's the least of their worries.

So, do you draft a QB high in the draft now? Push Stafford for a year or 2? Or do you draft a developmental QB later on? Be careful what you wish for....

 

[sggatecl]

I've been as critical of Stafford as anyone here but with the money he's owed and being he's only 27, I don't think this is the year to pull the trigger on a QB in the first 3 rounds (if at all). Too many bigger holes to fill than that of QB.

Fix the O-Line before you even consider a new QB so he doesn't end up like Stafford and sitting out 2 seasons due to murder via sack.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I've been as critical of Stafford as anyone here but with the money he's owed and being he's only 27, I don't think this is the year to pull the trigger on a QB in the first 3 rounds (if at all). Too many bigger holes to fill than that of QB.

Fix the O-Line before you even consider a new QB so he doesn't end up like Stafford and sitting out 2 seasons due to murder via sack.

We don't but pick one eventually. No more Dan O. Just for the sake if Matt does get injured. Will they be a good replacement if Matt goes down, no. But better than end zone Dan, absolutely. Plus, I still have hope a new GM will know how to draft. Sliver of hope.

 

[jdeb]

Well, all I can say is his value is probably as high as it will ever be considering his age, stats, and other teams needing a QB. Cleveland comes to mind. If we could move him on draft day for a good pick, I would do it. This team needs a lot. I won't blame the whole season on him but no excuses, he was awful in the first half of year and it killed us. He hasn't won anything and we could do that with anyone.

Sent from my XT1254 using Tapatalk

 

[dubbsco]

If you can move him and get some value, do it. You might get a team like Dallas who wants their hometown hero back after putting up a bunch of irrelevant numbers against garbage teams.

 

[tonyballs]

If you can move him and get some value, do it. You might get a team like Dallas who wants their hometown hero back after putting up a bunch of irrelevant numbers against garbage teams.

Kinda like what Russell Wilson did the last month of football, right? Well, obviously not yesterday against the Rams because, well, ummm, errrr, the Rams actually play defense. You're so right though.....good call buddy.

 

[dubbsco]

Oh I guess Minnesota doesn't play defense either? 146 QBR, 3 tds/0 ints, 51 rushing.

Go back to the kids table. The adults are talking.

Let me know when your love child wins something.

 

[tonyballs]

Oh I guess Minnesota doesn't play defense either? 146 QBR, 3 tds/0 ints, 51 rushing.

Go back to the kids table. The adults are talking.

Let me know when your love child wins something.

Well, dummy, I did mention that Minnesota was the only team that he did well against in that stretch. Oh but wait..........Minnesota had at least 2-3 defensive players on the mend that game lol.
Rawls actually ran well and their defense played lights out lol. But HEY, Russ....it was all you!!!

Seat's all yours, hero!!!

Let me know when you have Wilson's junk out of your mouth