2022 Off-Season

[503]

So given your statement above I think you would agree that the organization has been rotten from the top down for awhile?

If the answer is yes, then we shouldn't be asking how many more seasons of top 10 picks are we going to have, we should be asking if this leadership team (Holmes/MCDC) are the right ones to completely gut and rebuild a terrible organization from top to bottom.

If you don't think so, then bash away. But if you do, all the garbage that went before doesn't really matter anymore. The rebuild starts with Holmes and Campbell. They came into the worst roster situation in the NFL, or at least one of the worst. Year one was 3 wins, lots of injuries and lots of learning on the job and lots of changes. They see something in the guys they have retained. In some cases (Anzalone I'd bet) it's a harmless 1 year deal to bring back a guy who doesn't fit the long term plan but is super cheap and familiar with the defensive system. Those are the choices you make when you are doing a frame off restoration.

If year 2 is the same, 3 or 4 wins and no results, then we are back to square one for what seems like the 100th time, and again, bash away. But if year 2 shows 6-8 wins, progression and building on what I think were some positives last year, then another pick inside the top 10 (if we finish say 6-11) wouldn't really bother me too much.

You act as if they can waive a magic free agency wand and make this roster instantly better. It is going to take time. How much time it's already taken is completely irrelevant.

I see what you?re saying and you definitely make some valid points.

My whole thing is, we keep having to rebuild the rebuilt. It?s a cycle. I would disagree that Holmes and DC walked into one of the worst rosters. They walked into a top 10 pick, Stafford, Flowers, Swift, Hock, Decker, Ragnow, Collins, and probably a few others I?m leaving off. There was definitely some building pieces in place and talent to acquire more pieces. It shouldn?t take 3-4 years to rebuild when you walk into a prime Stafford as your starting QB.

If Holmes and Campbell are the guys, we should expect competing for the division title and a playoff appearance by year 3, at the latest. Just my opinion.

 

[503]

Unless a team loses their starting QB for a significant amount of time, never count on a team "upgrading through health". Teams will always have significant injuries.

Injuries is one of his many excuses every year.

Wish he would talk injuries and use that as an excuse to a Titans fan.

 

[LKP]

Unless a team loses their starting QB for a significant amount of time, never count on a team "upgrading through health". Teams will always have significant injuries.

Not always and could be in areas where there is depth too. It depends

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2022...y-30th-adjusted-games-lost-football-outsiders

Lions were more impacted last year with a plethora of them all over.

Titans, KC, Buffalo, Rams, Cincy all very healthy. GB and TB middle of the pack

And yes there will be some injuries. But this year it might Anzalone and like Vaitai not Romeo and Ragnow and we might have better ability to handle if we draft Thibodeaux at pick 2.

 

[tomdalton22]

Not always and could be in areas where there is depth too. It depends

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2022...y-30th-adjusted-games-lost-football-outsiders

Lions were more impacted last year with a plethora of them all over.

Titans, KC, Buffalo, Rams, Cincy all very healthy. GB and TB middle of the pack

And yes there will be some injuries. But this year it might Anzalone and like Vaitai not Romeo and Ragnow and we might have better ability to handle if we draft Thibodeaux at pick 2.

and one of the teams that was more injured than the Lions made it to the NFC championship game last year.

Injuries happen...good teams overcome them.

 

[503]

Not always and could be in areas where there is depth too. It depends

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2022...y-30th-adjusted-games-lost-football-outsiders

Lions were more impacted last year with a plethora of them all over.

Titans, KC, Buffalo, Rams, Cincy all very healthy. GB and TB middle of the pack

And yes there will be some injuries. But this year it might Anzalone and like Vaitai not Romeo and Ragnow and we might have better ability to handle if we draft Thibodeaux at pick 2.

Injuries seem to happen more offer to teams tanking for draft picks?

 

[LKP]

and one of the teams that was more injured than the Lions made it to the NFC championship game last year.

Injuries happen...good teams overcome them.

Not always. Depends on who it was. Mostert got hurt, San Fran is a RB machine

Lions will improve with better players on the field. Okwara, Ragnow, Decker, Okudah, actual number 1 WR in Chark over injured Tyrell Williams are the better players. That is four major improvements right there plus Okudah wild card. We'll see if they get hurt again.

Its usually not like every CB and two best players on the Oline and top two pass rushers, best offensive player and best running back. That is what the Lions had. Goff got hurt too

If Lions good to middle of the pack injuries, they'll be much better

49ers was McGlinchey for half the season, Mostert, Greenlaw, Verett (always hurt) and a bunch of backups. Greenlaw was back for the playoffs. I would take that injury scenario any day for the Lions even if its Sewell/Swift and Anzalone comparative and one CB. San Fran should be a better team too with more health

 

[grandy]

Not usually one to toot the injury horn, but I think it was a but more impactful for this team. They were very cautious with injuries this past season, guys that probably could?ve toughed it out were instead shut down early to get necessary surgeries.

Injuries also matter more when depth is non-existent. It?s a bigger blow to lose a starter on a roster decimated by the Boston Boys vs a playoff-caliber team with a well-constructed roster.

This is why drafting is so important in this league and to the Lions rebuild. It?s harder to absorb injuries when you?re blowing day two and three picks.

 

[tomdalton22]

Injuries also matter more when depth is non-existent. It?s a bigger blow to lose a starter on a roster decimated by the Boston Boys vs a playoff-caliber team with a well-constructed roster.

This is why drafting is so important in this league and to the Lions rebuild. It?s harder to absorb injuries when you?re blowing day two and three picks.

ding, ding, ding...we have a winner.

 

[LKP]

It matters for concentration. One CB or like 4 CBs

It matters if its your best players

And it matters if its an area where you have depth or not

Like RB Lions can handle, tackle they couldn't. Pass Rush they couldn't though Harris and J Okwara actually played well so they did somewhat but need a game changer regardless. a million CBs worked out some with Jacobs being found nicely after they failed with Bobby Price and Ife and others got hurt. ILB they could. Lions are building through the draft and will continue to add depth in more positions

Plenty of very healthy playoff teams. 49ers could handle who got hurt as Shanahan is a RB making machine. It wasn't permanent for Kittle only 4 games. Greenlaw not a huge loss. Verett they were ok with that too. McGlinchey was a bigger one but they handled it enough. They didn't compete for division though because of the injuries and worked through the wild card the hard way

 

[grandy]

Lions sign S Deshon Elliott, 1 yr up to $3.65 Mil

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2022/04/lions-s-deshon-elliott-agree-to-deal

 

[LKP]

Have two starting caliber safeties. Nice. Injury prone guy though.

Draft wide open even more but 32 or 34 still nice for a safety. Less pressure on that safety now

 

[tomdalton22]

Lions sign S Deshon Elliott, 1 yr up to $3.65 Mil

https://www.profootballrumors.com/2022/04/lions-s-deshon-elliott-agree-to-deal

he's a band aid until they can find a real safety

 

[grandy]

he's a band aid until they can find a real safety

Should be able to do through the draft.

I?m OK with the approach of not trapping themselves in long-term deals.

 

[LKP]

Should be able to do through the draft.

I?m OK with the approach of not trapping themselves in long-term deals.

Agree with this. Clearly have the draft for a long term safety

Also the one year deals give them motivation and help ease the burden on the rookie too. See Charles Harris last year. Sometimes it doesn't work out to like Ty Williams (injury) or Dunbar (off field) etc

Also its a nice thing called depth with Walker, say Cine or Brisker and Elliot. Plus Harris of course as the 4th guy then in a contract year

And you aren't tied to a guy like Justin Coleman or Jessie James for 3 years that got big money and didn't work out when you do these shorter deals

It's a different approach and building through the draft clearly with some vets short term sprinkled in is a good approach. And resign the players who played well longer term like Charles Harris and Walker

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Agree with this. Clearly have the draft for a long term safety

Also the one year deals give them motivation and help ease the burden on the rookie too. See Charles Harris last year. Sometimes it doesn't work out to like Ty Williams (injury) or Dunbar (off field) etc

Also its a nice thing called depth with Walker, say Cine or Brisker and Elliot. Plus Harris of course as the 4th guy then in a contract year

And you aren't tied to a guy like Justin Coleman or Jessie James for 3 years that got big money and didn't work out when you do these shorter deals

It's a different approach and building through the draft clearly with some vets short term sprinkled in is a good approach. And resign the players who played well longer term like Charles Harris and Walker

I do like that their approach doesn't lock us in any bad deals while the "foundation" is being put together. Depth has always been an issue with the Lions because our draft picks don't work out and/or our free agent signings limit our cap space to the point we can't afford depth.

A guy like Chark is a perfect example. 1 year deal for a guy with some talent. If he works out, great, we have a leg up on re-signing him long term. If he doesn't, he counts little/nothing against the cap going forward and we can fill the need with a draft pick.

The only way this philosophy works, though, is if we have success in the drafts. That can be said for most philosophies but it is especially true for the Lions. Talented players on cheap long term deals. Have to hit some homeruns with the top picks, find some gems in the middle rounds and coach up the day 3 picks to be solid depth. Sprinkle in a few big name FA signings as the team improves and you build a winner.

 

[503]

I do like that their approach doesn't lock us in any bad deals while the "foundation" is being put together. Depth has always been an issue with the Lions because our draft picks don't work out and/or our free agent signings limit our cap space to the point we can't afford depth.

A guy like Chark is a perfect example. 1 year deal for a guy with some talent. If he works out, great, we have a leg up on re-signing him long term. If he doesn't, he counts little/nothing against the cap going forward and we can fill the need with a draft pick.

The only way this philosophy works, though, is if we have success in the drafts. That can be said for most philosophies but it is especially true for the Lions. Talented players on cheap long term deals. Have to hit some homeruns with the top picks, find some gems in the middle rounds and coach up the day 3 picks to be solid depth. Sprinkle in a few big name FA signings as the team improves and you build a winner.

It?s a good approach if you like tanking and picking in the top 10. That?s were we?re headed again next year.

 

[LKP]

It?s a good approach if you like tanking and picking in the top 10. That?s were we?re headed again next year.

Wouldn't have to give up extra draft capital for an actual good QB then. It would suck this year but long run could be helpful. Campbell got a 6 year deal remember.

And this coaching staff doesn't tank

We'll see if they can win with this roster and incoming draft and development of players by the coaching staff. Jags, Seattle, Panthers, Bears twice, Vikings twice, Giants, Commanders, Jets all have plenty of problems too. Packers twice, Bills, Dolphins, Patriots, Cowboys, Eagles are good but not unbeatable too. 5 of those 7 games are at home

I don't think we'll pick top 10

 

[503]

Wouldn't have to give up extra draft capital for an actual good QB then. It would suck this year but long run could be helpful. Campbell got a 6 year deal remember.

And this coaching staff doesn't tank

We'll see if they can win with this roster and incoming draft and development of players by the coaching staff. Jags, Seattle, Panthers, Bears twice, Vikings twice, Giants, Commanders, Jets all have plenty of problems too. Packers twice, Bills, Dolphins, Patriots, Cowboys, Eagles are good but not unbeatable too.

I don't think we'll pick top 10

If this coaching staff doesn?t tank than they f?n suck! They won 3-games and had every veteran on the team quit on them last year.

You?re a silly guy LKP. We all know the contract length means absolutely nothing. DC is nothing more than a fall guy. He?s here for 2 maybe 3 years total before being fired. He might be the reason why we went w Goff, anyone in their right mind knows we can?t have DC and Burnell developing a young QB.

 

[LKP]

If this coaching staff doesn?t tank than they f?n suck! They won 3-games and had every veteran on the team quit on them last year.

You?re a silly guy LKP. We all know the contract length means absolutely nothing. DC is nothing more than a fall guy. He?s here for 2 maybe 3 years total before being fired. He might be the reason why we went w Goff, anyone in their right mind knows we can?t have DC and Burnell developing a young QB.

Ownership has to eat that money. Coaching contract length means alot. It would take an Urban Meyer scandal for them to drop Campbell before 4 years

Holmes didn't hire a fall guy lol.

This is a good defensive coaching staff and Ben Johnson is a good mind that the Bengals keep trying to get. Brunell and Randle El and Staley and Fraley have all played the position and know plenty. Shepphard, Pleasant and Glenn too on defense. Wash is a vet Dline coach too that had success in Jacksonville

We'll see how they develop them. They did a good job with the young guys last year, got really good things out of a bust in Harris, turned Walker around

It was a 3 win team due to first year in the rebuild, some crazy last second kicks, dead cap from all the Quinn contracts/Stafford trade and all the injuries to basically the best veterans (Decker, Ragnow, Okwara, Flowers, Hock etc)

I'll take 3 wins to get KT and pick 34 and 66

 

[boogerlovejoy]

It?s a good approach if you like tanking and picking in the top 10. That?s were we?re headed again next year.

Probably......but there is more hope this year than last.

Obviously the draft still has to happen, but i'd say 6-7 wins is a real possibility. It would be a good step forward.