2023 Off-Season Thread

[Mitchrapp]

I like the Lions over the Cowboys and I would take the Lions over the 49ers if they choose to keep Lance over Purdy.

You smoking the good stuff..

 

[LKP]

49ers
RT (big FA), Center, LE, SAM LB, CB2 (who they replace easily all the time), Nickelback, FS and kicker are free agents. Not much cap space. Replaced Demeco Ryans with another good DC in Steve Wilks so should still have a really good defense.

49ers should still be better even with Purdy hurt and Lance an unknown, raw but talented

Cowboys have TE (Dalton Schulz), WRs 3 and really RB 1 with Tony Pollard (FA and hurt) but have Zeke on a big contract, NT, MLB, WLB, FS and kicker all FAs

They will still be good on defense and have a new OC with Kellen Moore leaving but adding Brian Schotteinhemer. Lions can beat them but Dallas probably still has a better overall record due to their defense and still solid on offense. Up to Dak really

 

[503]

I think that is a terrible way to look at it. The Lions are in the perfect position NOT to have to sell their soul for a SB now type deal. This team is YOUNG and improving. They have the draft capital to get younger and better and still keep the cap on their side going forward.

Bringing in Ramsey would be a big upgrade in the secondary, no doubt. But making moves that will put you in cap purgatory in the future is not the way to build a team for future success. If Ramsey was willing to play out his current deal......great. But he understandably wants his last big pay day.

Salary cap is an excuse. You can always find ways to create space, we see it every year w the best teams. If we have a chance to get Ramsey, do it. The rebuild should be over and the NFC is wide open. I know change can be scary but it?s time for Detroit to make win now moves for once! Stop playing for 5yrs from now, play for next year!!

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Salary cap is an excuse. You can always find ways to create space, we see it every year w the best teams. If we have a chance to get Ramsey, do it. The rebuild should be over and the NFC is wide open. I know change can be scary but it?s time for Detroit to make win now moves for once! Stop playing for 5yrs from now, play for next year!!

Salary cap is an excuse?? That's some dumb fucking shit, dude. If it really were true, wouldn't everyone be after Ramsey?? Literally, EVERY damn team would be. There isn't one NFL team that wouldnt be better with Jalen Ramsey at CB.

The more you say that......the dumber you sound.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

You smoking the good stuff..

Not really.

Lions have the best offense of the 3, IMO. A good draft and a couple good FA signings......mostly on the defensive side of the ball......and a vastly improved defense would vault us up into the top 2 or 3 in the NFC.

Not saying the Cowboys or the 9ers are bad.....but nobody in the NFL has the same team 2 years in a row. A lot can go badly (for the Lions too, of course) and the schedule plays a factor.

 

[LKP]

Would rather the Lions be under the radar anyway.

Extra pressure on the young players if they are considered a top 4 NFC Team going in and favorites over Vikings and Green Bay for a division we have never won.

Like was said, a lot can go wrong too. Lions have good cap space and draft capital to improve this team and retained good coordinators. Lions need to add players, develop, coach well, scheme well and execute and avoid too many injuries like the Lions 1-6 start (there will be some of course, we will see who, how many, which positions and who has more compared to Lions opponents each game day).

 

[thehippo73]

I like the Lions over the Cowboys and I would take the Lions over the 49ers if they choose to keep Lance over Purdy.

Purdy is the new Shaun Hill.

Lance is vastly more talented than Purdy.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Purdy is the new Shaun Hill.

Lance is vastly more talented than Purdy.

Eh. Not sure about that. A rookie came in and handled himself pretty damn well and the other guys on that team couldn't say enough good things about him.......even when they weren't asked.

That's pretty high praise.

Time will tell. But I don't think last is VASTLY more talented. I don't think that's giving Purdy enough credit.

 

[503]

Salary cap is an excuse?? That's some dumb fucking shit, dude. If it really were true, wouldn't everyone be after Ramsey?? Literally, EVERY damn team would be. There isn't one NFL team that wouldnt be better with Jalen Ramsey at CB.

The more you say that......the dumber you sound.

Yes it?s an excuse. You pay experts in your building to figure cap situations out. If teams are worried about salary how do you explain Stafford, Kupp, Ramsey, Dornald on the same team and find ways to bring in FAs like Wagner and Robinson, and try and trade for the highest paid RB? A Super Bowl contending team doesn?t have a mindset of we can?t afford to bring in player x, but have mindsets of how do we make room for player x. You?re use to losing so I?m guessing you don?t understand.

If you want to win and want a certain player there?s always a way. It?s the NFL, very easy to move money around. So yes, salary cap is an excuse for bad teams.

 

[tomdalton22]

Yes it?s an excuse. You pay experts in your building to figure cap situations out. If teams are worried about salary how do you explain Stafford, Kupp, Ramsey, Dornald on the same team and find ways to bring in FAs like Wagner and Robinson, and try and trade for the highest paid RB? A Super Bowl contending team doesn?t have a mindset of we can?t afford to bring in player x, but have mindsets of how do we make room for player x. You?re use to losing so I?m guessing you don?t understand.

If you want to win and want a certain player there?s always a way. It?s the NFL, very easy to move money around. So yes, salary cap is an excuse for bad teams.

I'm also going to disagree. Bad teams don't use it as an excuse. Bad teams may not manipulate it as well as some others.

The thing about the salary cap, eventually, it's going to catch up to you. Teams that push too much salary down the road chasing the playoffs or rings will end up paying for it at some point. TB and NO are good examples of that right now. TB is currently $57M over and NO $30M over. The Rams are going to be in huge trouble shortly. My guess is they might have one more year of competing for the playoffs, but after that, they are going to be a bottom feeder for a while.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Yes it?s an excuse. You pay experts in your building to figure cap situations out. If teams are worried about salary how do you explain Stafford, Kupp, Ramsey, Dornald on the same team and find ways to bring in FAs like Wagner and Robinson, and try and trade for the highest paid RB? A Super Bowl contending team doesn?t have a mindset of we can?t afford to bring in player x, but have mindsets of how do we make room for player x. You?re use to losing so I?m guessing you don?t understand.

If you want to win and want a certain player there?s always a way. It?s the NFL, very easy to move money around. So yes, salary cap is an excuse for bad teams.

Again.....they sold their soul. Why do you think they're looking to deal Ramsey??

SMDH. It catches up to teams at some point. ALWAYS. It depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking for the Lions to have a 2-3 year window of success and then revert back to losing seasons......sure......trade the picks and bring in a bunch of salary. But if you want to build through the draft.....make trades to keep draft capital coming in and build winning teams from WITHIN......you don't make those deals that both take away draft capital and create cap issues down the line.

I'd LOVE having Ramsey on this team......but at some point that trade would have negative impacts.

Funny how you say I'm "used to losing".....but you're a Lions fan.....how the fuck can you speak on what "SB contending teams" do??

 

[LKP]

I'm also going to disagree. Bad teams don't use it as an excuse. Bad teams may not manipulate it as well as some others.

The thing about the salary cap, eventually, it's going to catch up to you. Teams that push too much salary down the road chasing the playoffs or rings will end up paying for it at some point. TB and NO are good examples of that right now. TB is currently $57M over and NO $30M over. The Rams are going to be in huge trouble shortly. My guess is they might have one more year of competing for the playoffs, but after that, they are going to be a bottom feeder for a while.

If you draft well and those players do well early with good coaching, you can cut the expensive vets and get out of it quicker though. Especially if you find an elite rookie QB deal QB. But the Saints took it to an extreme and the Bucs were all in on Brady. Bucs are in a rebuild now.

They will have a down year most likely, though the NFC South is garbage so won of them could still win it. But can right the cap ship by 2025. However, the Saints are still restructuring a lot of people and kicking the can.

There are variations too. Cap hell where you have to cut good players and have alot of dead money still, cap hell where you can't re-sign your Free agents you want and then less of cap hell and more just normal where you can't go crazy in FA signing any player you want and have to be smart with the contracts and draft well. Lions were in the 3rd category last offseason and the 1st category the first offseason under Holmes but really we wanted all those vets cut anyway (Coleman, Jessie James, Trufant etc) but were bargain basement shopping for Perriman and Tyrell Williams.

Adding just Ramsey I don't think would put the Lions back in cap hell. As long as they still drafted well still with the other picks in 2023, they would improve long term for the team and short term at CB big time. By the time we need a St Brown (2025, probably 2024), McNeil (2025), Sewell extension (2025 or 2026), Ramsey's contract would be on last year (2025) or end in Sewell's case. And Ramsey could be traded then with no dead cap hit. Ramsey big for 2024 but Okudah off the books if not 5th year option. So trading off Ramsey on big cap hit for Okudah on 10 million cap hit.

2023 is a big year for Goff too. If he proves it again, could be extended and that extension could lower actually lower his cap hit for 2024 at least from the current 31.6 million with a new deal.

2024 Lions have 115 million in cap space with 27 players signed. Plenty of room for Ramsey, this upcoming draft class (sans pick 18 for Ramsey) and whatever else Free agents they sign longer than 2023 season. If don't cut Vaitai now, but cut Vaitai in 2024 that is another 10 million in space too, 12 million in space if cut Vaitai in 2023. This is assuming they don't pick up Okudah's 5th year optino for 11.5 million in 2024 too. Give me Ramsey over Okudah in 2024. And the ability to trade for Ramsey is another reason the Lions/Rams trade with two 1st round picks was better than the Lions/Panthers trade scenario for Stafford.

 

[tomdalton22]

If you draft well and those players do well early with good coaching, you can cut the expensive vets and get out of it quicker though. Especially if you find an elite rookie QB deal QB. But the Saints took it to an extreme and the Bucs were all in on Brady. Bucs are in a rebuild now.

They will have a down year most likely, though the NFC South is garbage so won of them could still win it. But can right the cap ship by 2025. However, the Saints are still restructuring a lot of people and kicking the can.

There are variations too. Cap hell where you have to cut good players and have alot of dead money still, cap hell where you can't re-sign your Free agents you want and then less of cap hell and more just normal where you can't go crazy in FA signing any player you want and have to be smart with the contracts and draft well. Lions were in the 3rd category last offseason and the 1st category the first offseason under Holmes but really we wanted all those vets cut anyway (Coleman, Jessie James, Trufant etc) but were bargain basement shopping for Perriman and Tyrell Williams.

Adding just Ramsey I don't think would put the Lions back in cap hell. As long as they still drafted well still with the other picks in 2023, they would improve long term for the team and short term at CB big time. By the time we need a St Brown (2025, probably 2024), McNeil (2025), Sewell extension (2025 or 2026), Ramsey's contract would be on last year (2025) or end in Sewell's case. And Ramsey could be traded then with no dead cap hit. Ramsey big for 2024 but Okudah off the books if not 5th year option. So trading off Ramsey on big cap hit for Okudah on 10 million cap hit.

I agree that adding just Ramsey wouldn't put them in cap hell. The point I was making to 503 was that the cap isn't "just an excuse" for bad teams.

I also agree that the best way to circumvent the cap is to draft really well. Having guys on rookie deals that are really good will fix almost any cap problem. I'm sure that some of the better teams have some sort of formula that they strive for. Something like needing 30-40% of starters to be on rookie deals? I'm sure there is a number out there that pretty much eliminates any cap hell a team can get into.

 

[LKP]

I agree that adding just Ramsey wouldn't put them in cap hell. The point I was making to 503 was that the cap isn't "just an excuse" for bad teams.

I also agree that the best way to circumvent the cap is to draft really well. Having guys on rookie deals that are really good will fix almost any cap problem. I'm sure that some of the better teams have some sort of formula that they strive for. Something like needing 30-40% of starters to be on rookie deals? I'm sure there is a number out there that pretty much eliminates any cap hell a team can get into.

Lions are in that zone for sure.

2024, 2025, 2026 start re-signing some of these guys too in St Brown, McNeil, Sewell and Hutch at some point. Vaitai big number dropping at some point, Okudah 10 million in 2023 dropping in 2024.

2023 batch of free agents probably no big re-signs but probably could extend Jonah Jackson as he hits FA next offseason. Will be interesting to see if they offer anything to DJ Chark longer term. He is a top FA WR though so that could drive up his price out of Lions range of what willing to pay.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Last time the Lions put in a good full season I can't remember. Even Goff was 2 sides of a coin. 1st 8 games to last 9 - one spectrum to the opposite spectrum. Even the last 9 there were ups and down. It looks too familiar.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Last time the Lions put in a good full season I can't remember. Even Goff was 2 sides of a coin. 1st 8 games to last 9 - one spectrum to the opposite spectrum. Even the last 9 there were ups and down. It looks too familiar.

Probably because we've only been GOOD two years since 1990. Is that pathetic? Yes. Is it true, also yes.

Hard to have a good FULL season when they're never actually good.

Goff was consistent in all his numbers except 1.....turnovers. 1st 8 games.....11 (7 INT, 4 fumbles lost) last 9 games....1 TO (fumble). The completion % was within 3%. TD's were 14 /15. YPA was within .5 yards.

He just didn't turn the ball over. That's not going to happen again......its unlikely that he will have another 9 games stretch with only 1 turnover......but I also think it's unlikely that he turns it over 11 times in an 8 games stretch, too.

Defense just has to be better overall......and the turnovers won't be as crushing.

 

[503]

Again.....they sold their soul. Why do you think they're looking to deal Ramsey??

SMDH. It catches up to teams at some point. ALWAYS. It depends on what you're looking for. If you're looking for the Lions to have a 2-3 year window of success and then revert back to losing seasons......sure......trade the picks and bring in a bunch of salary. But if you want to build through the draft.....make trades to keep draft capital coming in and build winning teams from WITHIN......you don't make those deals that both take away draft capital and create cap issues down the line.

I'd LOVE having Ramsey on this team......but at some point that trade would have negative impacts.

Funny how you say I'm "used to losing".....but you're a Lions fan.....how the fuck can you speak on what "SB contending teams" do??

Win this year should be the approach after 3+ years of rebuilding. Not sure about you but I?m tired of losing and talking ?rebuild?. At what point do we put our chips in to win now?

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Win this year should be the approach after 3+ years of rebuilding. Not sure about you but I?m tired of losing and talking ?rebuild?. At what point do we put our chips in to win now?

Haven't heard the word "rebuild" in a long time. This isn't a rebuild any more. This is a fine tuning. They need the pieces on defense to really improve on that side of the ball and run the system the way they want to run it (blitz more).

They aren't rebuilding.

We're all tired of watching them lose.....that's why the last 10 weeks was so fun to watch (except the Carolina game). They have a legit shot at 11-12 wins and hosting a playoff game.

They have multiple picks. Get Jameson Williams for a full healthy season (which is like getting ANOTHER top 10 pick) and this draft is deep in the secondary. I like the direction.

 

[503]

Haven't heard the word "rebuild" in a long time. This isn't a rebuild any more. This is a fine tuning. They need the pieces on defense to really improve on that side of the ball and run the system the way they want to run it (blitz more).

They aren't rebuilding.

We're all tired of watching them lose.....that's why the last 10 weeks was so fun to watch (except the Carolina game). They have a legit shot at 11-12 wins and hosting a playoff game.

They have multiple picks. Get Jameson Williams for a full healthy season (which is like getting ANOTHER top 10 pick) and this draft is deep in the secondary. I like the direction.

At the end of the day we both want to accomplish the same goal just have 2 different ways to get there. Cheers!

 

[LKP]

https://www.prideofdetroit.com/2023/...y-splash-hopes

No blue chip top FA siginings coming. But still some starter upgrades that fit the needs