Cabrera vs Trout

[thehippo73]

Since this debate has boiled down to WAR, why have sabermetricians not put forth Cano, Alex Gordon, Torii Hunter and Ben Zobrist as MVP candidates? They are the other guys in the top 6 of WAR along with Trout, Cabrera and Beltre. If this singular statistic is that important, why isn't there support for all the top WAR players? The reason is simple. It is one stat that is flawed like many other stats.

I thought leading your team to the postseason was a bigger influence. I just hope the sabermetricians don't try to make a point with Cabrera's MVP award.

 

[hellifino]

Since this debate has boiled down to WAR, why have sabermetricians not put forth Cano, Alex Gordon, Torii Hunter and Ben Zobrist as MVP candidates? They are the other guys in the top 6 of WAR along with Trout, Cabrera and Beltre. If this singular statistic is that important, why isn't there support for all the top WAR players? The reason is simple. It is one stat that is flawed like many other stats.

I thought leading your team to the postseason was a bigger influence. I just hope the sabermetricians don't try to make a point with Cabrera's MVP award.

good point!

 

[tomdalton22]

Since this debate has boiled down to WAR, why have sabermetricians not put forth Cano, Alex Gordon, Torii Hunter and Ben Zobrist as MVP candidates? They are the other guys in the top 6 of WAR along with Trout, Cabrera and Beltre. If this singular statistic is that important, why isn't there support for all the top WAR players? The reason is simple. It is one stat that is flawed like many other stats.

I thought leading your team to the postseason was a bigger influence. I just hope the sabermetricians don't try to make a point with Cabrera's MVP award.

WAR is just part of it IMO. I like it because it includes a player's defense. As far as leading your team to the post season...that should be part of it too but I think that is negated by the fact that the Angels have a better record than the Tigers. The Tigers just got lucky that they play in a weaker division.

 

[beez]

I just think it's tough to make WAR very high on the list when you're comparing different positions.

 

[Mitchrapp]

WAR is just part of it IMO. I like it because it includes a player's defense. As far as leading your team to the post season...that should be part of it too but I think that is negated by the fact that the Angels have a better record than the Tigers. The Tigers just got lucky that they play in a weaker division.

But it shouldn't decide an award. Plus, WAR for defense mean jack when one plays 3rd and one plays CF.

 

[Thumb]

But it shouldn't decide an award. Plus, WAR for defense mean jack when one plays 3rd and one plays CF.

It should not be decided by WAR, or the Triple Crown.

I don't think the Triple crown makes Cabrera a lock for MVP. Why? Because he's MVP now, even if Trout passes him by a percentage point in Avg.

The question of who is MVP is too complex to be simply decided by a guy winning the TC or leading in WAR, and many people out there are just as blind as Keith Law when they use the TC argument as indisputable.

 

[Mitchrapp]

It should not be decided by WAR, or the Triple Crown.

I don't think the Triple crown makes Cabrera a lock for MVP. Why? Because he's MVP now, even if Trout passes him by a percentage point in Avg.

The question of who is MVP is too complex to be simply decided by a guy winning the TC or leading in WAR, and many people out there are just as blind as Keith Law when they use the TC argument as indisputable.

Why single out one of my post and say the same thing twice in two different threads? I never said TC=MVP.

 

[byco42]

The TC is more important than the MVP, IMO. I'd be satisfied with that legacy were it me.

 

[Mitchrapp]

The TC is more important than the MVP, IMO. I'd be satisfied with that legacy were it me.

You might be right. Rare feat indeed if it comes through, I'd be thrilled.

 

[Thumb]

Why single out one of my post and say the same thing twice in two different threads? I never said TC=MVP.

I'm not singling you out Mitch. You said WAR should not decide an award, I was agreeing with you and adding my own remarks on the TC. :nod:

 

[tomdalton22]

But it shouldn't decide an award. Plus, WAR for defense mean jack when one plays 3rd and one plays CF.

You are right....I would rather have a gold glove caliber defender in CF than one at 3B. Great defense in CF is more important than 3B. I may come across as supporting Trout for the MVP...I'm not. I think both are pretty much equally deserving....I just can't understand how many on this board discount Trout.

 

[mjsb2]

Yeah but age shouldn't be a factor in anything.

Neither should the last time somebody won a TC.

 

[mjsb2]

As much as I hate the Red Sox Jacoby Ellsbury last year put up better overall numbers then Trout has this year from the leadoff slot. Oh yeah AND he is better defensively then Trout. But rightfully so he wasn't the MVP last year simply because Verlander had a better year and MADE the playoffs. Same should be said this year but unfortunately this whole Cabrera vs Trout for MVP has basically become Old School vs Sabermetrics and the emphasis being placed on WAR instead of actually whom is more valuable to their team. QUOTE]

This is just wrong.

Trouts numbers are far superior to Ellsbury.

He has a 24 point advantage in wRC+, that's massive.

And Ellsbury being better defensively is debateable.

 

[Mitchrapp]

You are right....I would rather have a gold glove caliber defender in CF than one at 3B. Great defense in CF is more important than 3B. I may come across as supporting Trout for the MVP...I'm not. I think both are pretty much equally deserving....I just can't understand how many on this board discount Trout.

Says you. Typically a 3B will get more chances. And about discounting Trout: I look at WAR and all the other Saber-metrics but in the end I use the eye test. I use the old school, average, RBI etc.

56 more RBI should matter.

 

[mjsb2]

Since this debate has boiled down to WAR, why have sabermetricians not put forth Cano, Alex Gordon, Torii Hunter and Ben Zobrist as MVP candidates? They are the other guys in the top 6 of WAR along with Trout, Cabrera and Beltre. If this singular statistic is that important, why isn't there support for all the top WAR players? The reason is simple. It is one stat that is flawed like many other stats.

I thought leading your team to the postseason was a bigger influence. I just hope the sabermetricians don't try to make a point with Cabrera's MVP award.

It hasn't boilded down to WAR.

 

[mjsb2]

The TC is more important than the MVP, IMO. I'd be satisfied with that legacy were it me.

Absolutely.

 

[tomdalton22]

The TC is more important than the MVP, IMO. I'd be satisfied with that legacy were it me.

I agree 100%. Somebody wins the MVP every single year.....lately getting the triple crown comes around once every 4 decades!

 

[beez]

Neither should the last time somebody won a TC.

Not sure I agree with this..that shows ow hard of a feat it really is with all of the great hitter who have played since then. Pujols, Bonds etc... I think that should play a role in the voting.

 

[hungry]

I really think this is a nobrainer. I feel the only reasons that people are even mentioning Trout is because, A) a debate is needed and B) someone on the Tigers won it last year.

 

[byco42]

Absolutely.

Especially because the TC is earned by the player and not left to the vote of sportswriters. No disputing that!

Quick: Who won the AL MVP in: 1965? 1974? 1951? 1959? 1970? 1995? I can name three without googling.