Greatest Leftfielder of All Time

[Thumb]

I don't think many of today's players would last long back then. The game was tougher. They'd go home crying to mama. Many of the greats would be great in any era. Bob Feller or Walter Johnson are still going to throw around 100 MPH. Ted Williams is still going to be able to turn on a fastball. On the other hand, someone like Bonds is not going to be able to go to bat with a wuss pad. Roger Clemens is not going to be able to take 5 days off to be at home. Guys are not going to be able to take a day off for a hang nail.

The problem with this statement is that Walter Johnson didn't throw 100 mph.. The high heat in that era was 90 mph at best..

You're passing an assumption off as fact.

You have no idea how fast he threw, and it could very well have been 100+.

 

[tomdalton22]

The problem with this statement is that Walter Johnson didn't throw 100 mph.. The high heat in that era was 90 mph at best..

You're passing an assumption off as fact.

You have no idea how fast he threw, and it could very well have been 100+.

And it could have been 90. Based on the fact that old time pitchers would pitch with mostly only 3 days rest and would commonly throw 150+ pitches I think it is safe to assume that most of them were not exerting themselves and mostly throwing a little harder than BP fastballs. I think that is the reason for the inflated batting averages back in the day.

 

[Rebbiv]

At age 30, Johnson was "clocked" at 91.8 MPH.

When everyone else is throwing maybe into the 80s, then 92 is dominating.

 

[Thumb]

You're passing an assumption off as fact.

You have no idea how fast he threw, and it could very well have been 100+.

And it could have been 90. Based on the fact that old time pitchers would pitch with mostly only 3 days rest and would commonly throw 150+ pitches I think it is safe to assume that most of them were not exerting themselves and mostly throwing a little harder than BP fastballs. I think that is the reason for the inflated batting averages back in the day.

Again, this is an assumption only.

 

[tomdalton22]

At age 30, Johnson was "clocked" at 91.8 MPH.

When everyone else is throwing maybe into the 80s, then 92 is dominating.

That is what I thought.

 

[Thumb]

At age 30, Johnson was "clocked" at 91.8 MPH.

When everyone else is throwing maybe into the 80s, then 92 is dominating.

Walter Johnson last pitched in 1927, so whatever crude method used to "clock" his pitches was likely very inaccurate.

No solid data exists to confirm or deny his actual pitch speeds.

 

[Rebbiv]

At age 30, Johnson was "clocked" at 91.8 MPH.

When everyone else is throwing maybe into the 80s, then 92 is dominating.

Walter Johnson last pitched in 1927, so whatever crude method used to "clock" his pitches was likely very inaccurate.

No solid data exists to confirm or deny his actual pitch speeds.

Crude by today's varying speed guns at stadiums that can be as much as 5 MPH off?

It was a munitions laboratory that did this measuring.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/fastest-pitcher-in-baseball.shtml

"There are few ways to measure velocity, but every once in a while, there occurs other ways. For example:

Batters facing Walter Johnson often alleged that they could not actually see the ball. Umpire Billy Evans admitted that even he couldn't tell if the ball was crossing the plate or not. Quite an admission.

Batters often admitted that they couldn't tell if they were swinging over the ball, under the ball, or anything. Even Babe Ruth told of his first AB against Johnson in 1915. He says he stepped into the batters box. Bam, bam, bam. Back to the dugout. Easiest victim Walter ever had. Babe never swung, never saw any pitches. But he heard something swish by. He told the ump that the pitches sounded high.

Another batter, I think it was Jimmie Dykes was, was batting agaisnt Walter and his arm comes down. Jimmie is waiting and the ball never arrives. Then the catcher is returning the ball. Jimmie turns to the ump, with questioning eyes. The ump tells him to take his base. Huh? says Jimmie. The ump then informs him that if he doesn't think the ball clipped him, feel his bill cap.

Jimmie does and the bill is turned all the way around. Jimmie turns white. Never even saw a ball! Only Nolan Ryan was that fast in modern times.
No one ever alleged they couldn't even see a ball. So I equate Johnson with Ryan. Ryan was timed over 100 mph.

Feller was time at 98.6. Body temperature. Many equated Feller with Grove. But no one ever claimed that they couldn't follow Feller's pitches. So I measure Johnson over 100. With Ryan."

 

[tycobb420]

But he DID put up those numbers. lol

If you could have Barry Bonds IN HIS PLAYING CONDITION would he make your top 5 all time and if not why?

No. He was not good enough to be top 5. Off the top of my head (not in order), Ruth, Gehrig, Walter Johnson, Musial, Cobb. Then (not in any order): Wagner, Mays, Hornsby, Ted Williams, Frank Robinson, Mickey Mantle, Eddie Collins, Jimmie Foxx, Albert Pujols, Cy Young, Christy Mathewson, Hank Aaron, Mike Schmidt, Johnny Bench, Yogi Berra, Pete Alexander, Greg Maddux, Lefty Grove, Tom Seaver, Jim Palmer, Sandy Koufax, Mariano Rivera, Eddie Plank, Bob Feller, Joe DiMaggio, Ken Griffey Jr. Hope I did not forget anyone!

In his era, he was second to Griffey Jr.. If you add pitchers, then he would also be behind Maddux and Mariano Rivera. You could make an argument about Clemens being ahead of him as well.

 

[tycobb420]

The problem with this statement is that Walter Johnson didn't throw 100 mph.. The high heat in that era was 90 mph at best..

You're passing an assumption off as fact.

You have no idea how fast he threw, and it could very well have been 100+.

I am using an eye witness. You're guessing.

 

[tycobb420]

Walter Johnson last pitched in 1927, so whatever crude method used to "clock" his pitches was likely very inaccurate.

No solid data exists to confirm or deny his actual pitch speeds.

Crude by today's varying speed guns at stadiums that can be as much as 5 MPH off?

It was a munitions laboratory that did this measuring.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/fastest-pitcher-in-baseball.shtml

"There are few ways to measure velocity, but every once in a while, there occurs other ways. For example:

Batters facing Walter Johnson often alleged that they could not actually see the ball. Umpire Billy Evans admitted that even he couldn't tell if the ball was crossing the plate or not. Quite an admission.

Batters often admitted that they couldn't tell if they were swinging over the ball, under the ball, or anything. Even Babe Ruth told of his first AB against Johnson in 1915. He says he stepped into the batters box. Bam, bam, bam. Back to the dugout. Easiest victim Walter ever had. Babe never swung, never saw any pitches. But he heard something swish by. He told the ump that the pitches sounded high.

Another batter, I think it was Jimmie Dykes was, was batting agaisnt Walter and his arm comes down. Jimmie is waiting and the ball never arrives. Then the catcher is returning the ball. Jimmie turns to the ump, with questioning eyes. The ump tells him to take his base. Huh? says Jimmie. The ump then informs him that if he doesn't think the ball clipped him, feel his bill cap.

Jimmie does and the bill is turned all the way around. Jimmie turns white. Never even saw a ball! Only Nolan Ryan was that fast in modern times.
No one ever alleged they couldn't even see a ball. So I equate Johnson with Ryan. Ryan was timed over 100 mph.

Feller was time at 98.6. Body temperature. Many equated Feller with Grove. But no one ever claimed that they couldn't follow Feller's pitches. So I measure Johnson over 100. With Ryan."

The fellow I was talking about was a reporter....can't remember his name now.

How did they time Feller? By having him race a motorcycle. Why? They did not have an accurate radar gun.

 

[tycobb420]

Splendid Splinter-10 Bonds-9; Five others with a solitary vote.

 

[tomdalton22]

Walter Johnson last pitched in 1927, so whatever crude method used to "clock" his pitches was likely very inaccurate.

No solid data exists to confirm or deny his actual pitch speeds.

Crude by today's varying speed guns at stadiums that can be as much as 5 MPH off?

It was a munitions laboratory that did this measuring.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/articles/fastest-pitcher-in-baseball.shtml

"There are few ways to measure velocity, but every once in a while, there occurs other ways. For example:

Batters facing Walter Johnson often alleged that they could not actually see the ball. Umpire Billy Evans admitted that even he couldn't tell if the ball was crossing the plate or not. Quite an admission.

Batters often admitted that they couldn't tell if they were swinging over the ball, under the ball, or anything. Even Babe Ruth told of his first AB against Johnson in 1915. He says he stepped into the batters box. Bam, bam, bam. Back to the dugout. Easiest victim Walter ever had. Babe never swung, never saw any pitches. But he heard something swish by. He told the ump that the pitches sounded high.

Another batter, I think it was Jimmie Dykes was, was batting agaisnt Walter and his arm comes down. Jimmie is waiting and the ball never arrives. Then the catcher is returning the ball. Jimmie turns to the ump, with questioning eyes. The ump tells him to take his base. Huh? says Jimmie. The ump then informs him that if he doesn't think the ball clipped him, feel his bill cap.

Jimmie does and the bill is turned all the way around. Jimmie turns white. Never even saw a ball! Only Nolan Ryan was that fast in modern times.
No one ever alleged they couldn't even see a ball. So I equate Johnson with Ryan. Ryan was timed over 100 mph.

Feller was time at 98.6. Body temperature. Many equated Feller with Grove. But no one ever claimed that they couldn't follow Feller's pitches. So I measure Johnson over 100. With Ryan."

When they were used to seeing 85 MPH fastballs I can understand how a 95+ MPH fastball might seem "invisible"

 

[Thumb]

You're passing an assumption off as fact.

You have no idea how fast he threw, and it could very well have been 100+.

I am using an eye witness. You're guessing.

You're responding to the wrong poster.

 

[wolverine304]

There's no way pitchers threw as hard as they do now. Mechanics are perfected, much stronger. This goes with any sport. Athletes now are stronger and faster. Its common sense.

 

[mattym]

In 1999, the Sporting News voted on the best player of the 1990s. The winner: Barry Bonds. So I'm not sure where this "Griffey was better in the 1990s" comes from, other than people who like Griffey and hate Bonds.

Not for one microsecond of the 1990s was Ken Griffey Jr. better than Barry Bonds.

 

[wolverine304]

Jr has never been caught cheating with steriods.

 

[mattym]

I'm only addressing people who said Griffey was voted a better player than Bonds in the 1990s. He wasn't, because he wasn't. And no one accused Bonds of juicing in the 1990s. At least from not before 1999...

And if that's your stance, then I want to see no votes for A-Rod when third base comes up.

 

[mattym]

Maybe Jr. should've used steroids in the 1990s--it might have gotten him a little closer to being as good as Bonds.

 

[Mitchrapp]

The speed of past pitchers to today's pitchers is just dumb. Players of today just get used to hitting 100MPH and if Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb and the rest who played back then were transported 80 years forward and all the advancements the game has made would be able to hit 100MPH. So 91.8 was super fast. And when one guy, Ruth, was hitting more home runs than teams did - it was impressive and not because of BP pitchers or small gloves BS.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I know the all century team I know, in 1999, by the fans. Which i don't see as less important than sporting news.

Nolan Ryan