Greatest Leftfielder of All Time

[mattym]

That list is asinine beyond belief. Nolan Ryan had the most votes of any pitcher in baseball history. Uh, okay. Mark McGwire was voted on the team over Jimmie Foxx, because the ADD morons saw him hit 70 homers the year before (when he was all roided up but no one cared, because he wasn't surly and was "saving baseball"). The fans voted Ripken and Banks as shortstops over Honus Wagner, who was added to the team by the writers. As was Christy Mathewson, who, you know, wasn't as good as Nolan Ryan?

And Bonds was a great player before he took steroids. Before he even nibbled a Flintstone vitamin, he was better than Ken Griffey Jr. Every ounce of evidence, every statistic, every award, says so. Griffey had the edge in wearing his hat backwards and smiling a lot. Bonds had the edge in pretty much everything else.

 

[thehippo73]

I can't believe we ignore that fact that Ted missed prime years because of the war. He was a much better hitter than Bonds. Neither was a great fielder. Ted would have had 600+ HRs and still would have batted .340+. Give me Ted any day of the week.

 

[Mitchrapp]

That list is asinine beyond belief. Nolan Ryan had the most votes of any pitcher in baseball history. Uh, okay. Mark McGwire was voted on the team over Jimmie Foxx, because the ADD morons saw him hit 70 homers the year before (when he was all roided up but no one cared, because he wasn't surly and was "saving baseball"). The fans voted Ripken and Banks as shortstops over Honus Wagner, who was added to the team by the writers. As was Christy Mathewson, who, you know, wasn't as good as Nolan Ryan?

And Bonds was a great player before he took steroids. Before he even nibbled a Flintstone vitamin, he was better than Ken Griffey Jr. Every ounce of evidence, every statistic, every award, says so. Griffey had the edge in wearing his hat backwards and smiling a lot. Bonds had the edge in pretty much everything else.

I didn't post that because I believe the list to be accurate or if McGuire was better than anyone etc. It was done by fans afterall. Just like sporting news, desnt mean a thing.. But when I see names on there I can't even fathom Bonds being a top 10 player. In the history of baseball, no way.

 

[mattym]

Bonds won eight gold gloves, two less than Al Kaline. He was a great outfielder, at least in the 1990s he was. Lumping them both together, as in "neither was a great fielder," is silly. Williams wasn't in the same zip code as Bonds when it comes to fielding. (And baserunning.) And I agree Bonds wasn't as good a hitter, but he wasn't nearly as far off as you think. And he was certainly as feared.

By the way, I know gold gloves weren't around in Williams' day, but no matter--he wasn't winning any, regardless.

 

[thehippo73]

Gold gloves changed from Ted's time to Bonds time. Great hitters get much more respect in field now than they did in the past.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Its funny gold glove used to mean best fielder. Lol. And even a while after when the hitting part helped in the gold glove they still insisted it was best fielder. Now they don't even hint at the hitting part, they just flat out say to win a gold glove you need to hit well and/or be popular.

 

[tycobb420]

[quote author=wolverine304 board=tigertalk thread=2755 post=70218 time=1319594167]There's no way pitchers threw as hard as they do now. Mechanics are perfected, much stronger. This goes with any sport. Athletes now are stronger and faster. Its common sense.[/quote

Feller did.

 

[beez]

Ok now I'll ask this question...other than steroids and the ability to rob a home run...what made Jr a better player?
Batting average? No,
Power? No
OBP? No
OPS? No
Steals? No
RBI? No

Keep in mind KGJ is my absolute favorite player of all time, but Bonds is superior for sure.

 

[tycobb420]

In 1999, the Sporting News voted on the best player of the 1990s. The winner: Barry Bonds. So I'm not sure where this "Griffey was better in the 1990s" comes from, other than people who like Griffey and hate Bonds.

Not for one microsecond of the 1990s was Ken Griffey Jr. better than Barry Bonds.

You missed the 1990s...

 

[tycobb420]

In 1992, Bonds told his Pirates teammates that they would have to win the pennant without him. In Game 7, Andy Van Slyke asked him to move over in case he had to make a throw at the plate and Bonds flipped him off. Had he moved over, he might have thrown out the world's slowest runner, Sid Bream. These are not the marks of a great player. It is the mark of a player that feasts on mediocre pitching and disappears when his team needs him most (see A-Rod).

 

[beez]

Career
.298 hitter
2227 runs (3rd)
5976 totl bases (4th)
1.051 OPS (4th all time)
Only struck out 100 times once (Rookie year 102)
2558 career walks
512 steals (33rd)
1996 RBIS (4th)
762 Home runs (1st)
77 triples
601 doubles
688 intentional walks (1st)
444 OBP (6th)

159 assists (4th for a lf since 1954)

14 all star games (I think)
7 time MVP
1st in WAR 9 times (in the top 5 16 times) 2nd for a career
12 silver sluggers
6th in defensive war (1st 3 times, top 6 6 times)

had season of these numbers

avg/hr/rbis/bb/k's/sb

.301/33/114/93/83/52 (1990)

.292/25/116/107/73/43 (1991)

.311/34/103/127/69/39 (1992)

.336/46/123/126/79/29 (1993)

.312/37/81/74/43/29 (only 474 PAs in 1994)

.294/33/104/120/83/31 (1995)

.308/42/129/151/76/40 (1996)

.291/40/101/145/87/37 (1997)

.303/37/122/130/92/28 (1998)

.306/49/106/117/77/11 (2000)

.328/73/137/177/93/13 (2001)

.370/46/110/198/47/9 (2002)

.341/45/90/148/58/7 (2003)

.362/45/101/232/41/6 (2004)

Possibly saw fewer hittable pitches than anyone in history and still put up these video game numbers. He was also a good fielder. Don't tell me I'm an idiot for considering him as a contender for one of the top players of all time. Morals aside, this guy was fucking great.



.

GRIFFEY JR

.284 hitter ( 8 season of a .300 avg, 10 seasons under .265) 2 of those 10 at the tail end of his career.

Only stole 20 bases twice

NEVER walked 100 times in a season

ONLY 1 season in which he walked more than he k'd

2 season of a .400 obp

Career ops of .907

8 seasons with 100 rbi

630 career homers

Theres nothing to suggest he was better than Bonds. Bonds not being a top 5 player of all time (setting aside moral issues) is an opinion based off of hatred for a guy. All evidence points to him being one of the all time greats.

 

[tycobb420]

Career
.298 hitter
2227 runs (3rd)
5976 totl bases (4th)
1.051 OPS (4th all time)
Only struck out 100 times once (Rookie year 102)
2558 career walks
512 steals (33rd)
1996 RBIS (4th)
762 Home runs (1st)
77 triples
601 doubles
688 intentional walks (1st)
444 OBP (6th)

159 assists (4th for a lf since 1954)

14 all star games (I think)
7 time MVP
1st in WAR 9 times (in the top 5 16 times) 2nd for a career
12 silver sluggers
6th in defensive war (1st 3 times, top 6 6 times)

had season of these numbers

avg/hr/rbis/bb/k's/sb

.301/33/114/93/83/52 (1990)

.292/25/116/107/73/43 (1991)

.311/34/103/127/69/39 (1992)

.336/46/123/126/79/29 (1993)

.312/37/81/74/43/29 (only 474 PAs in 1994)

.294/33/104/120/83/31 (1995)

.308/42/129/151/76/40 (1996)

.291/40/101/145/87/37 (1997)

.303/37/122/130/92/28 (1998)

.306/49/106/117/77/11 (2000)

.328/73/137/177/93/13 (2001)

.370/46/110/198/47/9 (2002)

.341/45/90/148/58/7 (2003)

.362/45/101/232/41/6 (2004)

Possibly saw fewer hittable pitches than anyone in history and still put up these video game numbers. He was also a good fielder. Don't tell me I'm an idiot for considering him as a contender for one of the top players of all time. Morals aside, this guy was fucking great.



.

GRIFFEY JR

.284 hitter ( 8 season of a .300 avg, 10 seasons under .265) 2 of those 10 at the tail end of his career.

Only stole 20 bases twice

NEVER walked 100 times in a season

ONLY 1 season in which he walked more than he k'd

2 season of a .400 obp

Career ops of .907

8 seasons with 100 rbi

630 career homers

Theres nothing to suggest he was better than Bonds. Bonds not being a top 5 player of all time (setting aside moral issues) is an opinion based off of hatred for a guy. All evidence points to him being one of the all time greats.

Except that Junior's statistics are real

 

[beez]

I feel like you're being proven wrong and just reverting back to roids to make it better. I've already stated NUMEROUS times that my question to you was, just considering on the field performace, was Bonds a top 5 guy all time in which you keep listing guys who Bonds blows out of the water in both the stats and eye test category, to be better than him. I don't get what your logic is. You just told me, throwing all cheating/moral issues aside and going by how good they were at the game they played, that you would take Ken Griffey Jr over Barry Bonds.

 

[tycobb420]

1990-1999: Bonds v Jr.

Bonds being a corner OF and JR. a centerfielder.

Junior:

.302, 382 HR, 1091 RBI, 151 SB

Postseason: .302, 6 HR, 11 RBI

Bonds:

.302, 361 HR, 1076 RBI, 343 SB

Post: .200, 1 HR, 5 RBI

Plus, Junior was a better fielder even though both won GGs. But often GGs go to the best offensive player...that was not the case with Jr.

 

[tycobb420]

Ted Williams: Last man to hit .400, missed 5 years due to WWII and Korea, otherwise he'd probably be the all-time HR and RBI leader. Also hit the GW HR in the 1941 ASG. Homered in last MLB AB, etc etc etc...

 

[beez]

I'm not here for probably, maybes or 10 years periods.

Barry Bonds was a better baseball player period. You can't throw out some of his best years on the 2000's to better suit your arguement. lol

Ted Williams
he hit a gw hr in an all star game
homered in last ab...
Barry Bonds was hated by his teammates and was a dbag
what does any of this matter?

 

[Mitchrapp]

I'm not here for probably, maybes or 10 years periods.

Barry Bonds was a better baseball player period. You can't throw out some of his best years on the 2000's to better suit your arguement. lol

Ted Williams
he hit a gw hr in an all star game
homered in last ab...
Barry Bonds was hated by his teammates and was a dbag
what does any of this matter?

Yeah you can. You can't have an OPS of 1300 and 1400 plus in your late 30's. While Griffey was having trouble staying healthy, Bonds was juiced so he could keep on playing and put up fantasy type numbers. You can have your Jr. Vs Bnds 90's debate but after that Bonds just had stupid MLB the Show numbers by cheating.

 

[mattym]

In 1992, Bonds told his Pirates teammates that they would have to win the pennant without him. In Game 7, Andy Van Slyke asked him to move over in case he had to make a throw at the plate and Bonds flipped him off. Had he moved over, he might have thrown out the world's slowest runner, Sid Bream. These are not the marks of a great player. It is the mark of a player that feasts on mediocre pitching and disappears when his team needs him most (see A-Rod).

 

[mattym]

Or...see Ted Williams.

You know, .200 average, 0 HRs, 1 RBI in his only World Series appearance?

 

[mattym]

Ty, the 1990s:

Bonds had 21 less HRs--in about 475 less at bats.

Bonds had 15 less RBI--in about 475 less at bats.

And twice as many steals.

And I notice you didn't post OBP, Slugging Percentage, OPS, walks. Why not? Does Bonds numbers in those blow Griffey right out of the water? Gee, I wonder, let me go check, even though anybody even sleepwalking through the 1990s already knows the answer...