Greatest Leftfielder of All Time

[Mitchrapp]

Ty, the 1990s:

Bonds had 21 less HRs--in about 475 less at bats.

Bonds had 15 less RBI--in about 475 less at bats.

And twice as many steals.

And I notice you didn't post OBP, Slugging Percentage, OPS, walks. Why not? Does Bonds numbers in those blow Griffey right out of the water? Gee, I wonder, let me go check, even though anybody even sleepwalking through the 1990s already knows the answer...

Granted you need to add those but you can't list all those since OBP and SLG is OPS and walks being a part of that. That's like double dipping, lol.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

Wonder why Griffey had chronic injury problems. Could it be he was suspected of steroids to? Oh yea he was. Funny thing is Griffey fell off a cliff at one point, weird that a player would do so well then be so bad. A lot like a Brady Anderson

 

[beez]

Griffey wasn't on roids....you cant be his size on roids..I just don't believe it. That being said, Bonds at his best>Griffey at his best.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

Funny that over half of the Seattle Mariners teams back in the day were found to take steroids (Alex Rodriguez, David Segui, Shane Monahan, Glenallen Hill, Ryan Franklin, Todd Williams, Ron Villone, David Bell and Josias Manzanillo, Jay Buhner, Bret Boone). Just to name a few of them.

His first eleven years for the Mariners he never had problems with health, except for a wrist injury that he suffered crashing into a wall. Starting with the 2001 season (when Griffey, Jr. was only 31 years old), the next six seasons saw Griffey, Jr. miss considerable time with nagging injuries. The types of injuries that have been linked to be caused by long-term steroid abuse.

Also, after the 2001 season his power flat out disappeared. Sure he had injuries, but players in their early 30s are supposed to be still in their prime. Looks a lot like steroids broke his body down and he had to get off the steroids.

And some of you will say he didn't pass the eye test. He wasn't huge. You obviously have no knowledge of steroids and the way they work. About half of the steroids available force your muscles to retain water, making them look much bigger. But, the other half like Primobolan actually don't. And this is one of the most used steroids according to the Mitchell report, even A-Rod used it.

 

[tycobb420]

Ty, the 1990s:

Bonds had 21 less HRs--in about 475 less at bats.

Bonds had 15 less RBI--in about 475 less at bats.

And twice as many steals.

And I notice you didn't post OBP, Slugging Percentage, OPS, walks. Why not? Does Bonds numbers in those blow Griffey right out of the water? Gee, I wonder, let me go check, even though anybody even sleepwalking through the 1990s already knows the answer...

I did not have time to calculate the other stats. They were close on the big three. That is the point and I never contended that Griffey was a base stealer. The stats are pretty even except when you get to the post season where Bonds was a choke artist. I notice you did not mention that or AVS's account of Bonds in 1992.

 

[mattym]

To have used steroids, you can't look like Griffey. You have to be a hulk, like that overgrown freak Andy Pettite.

 

[tycobb420]

Rich what? Richmond![/color]]Funny that over half of the Seattle Mariners teams back in the day were found to take steroids (Alex Rodriguez, David Segui, Shane Monahan, Glenallen Hill, Ryan Franklin, Todd Williams, Ron Villone, David Bell and Josias Manzanillo, Jay Buhner, Bret Boone). Just to name a few of them.

His first eleven years for the Mariners he never had problems with health, except for a wrist injury that he suffered crashing into a wall. Starting with the 2001 season (when Griffey, Jr. was only 31 years old), the next six seasons saw Griffey, Jr. miss considerable time with nagging injuries. The types of injuries that have been linked to be caused by long-term steroid abuse.

Also, after the 2001 season his power flat out disappeared. Sure he had injuries, but players in their early 30s are supposed to be still in their prime. Looks a lot like steroids broke his body down and he had to get off the steroids.

And some of you will say he didn't pass the eye test. He wasn't huge. You obviously have no knowledge of steroids and the way they work. About half of the steroids available force your muscles to retain water, making them look much bigger. But, the other half like Primobolan actually don't. And this is one of the most used steroids according to the Mitchell report, even A-Rod used it.

There is no evidence Griffey used. The attack is an attempt to deflect attention.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

To have used steroids, you can't look like Griffey. You have to be a hulk, like that overgrown freak Andy Pettite.

False. Primobolan

 

[zoombabyzoom]

Rich what? Richmond![/color]]Funny that over half of the Seattle Mariners teams back in the day were found to take steroids (Alex Rodriguez, David Segui, Shane Monahan, Glenallen Hill, Ryan Franklin, Todd Williams, Ron Villone, David Bell and Josias Manzanillo, Jay Buhner, Bret Boone). Just to name a few of them.

His first eleven years for the Mariners he never had problems with health, except for a wrist injury that he suffered crashing into a wall. Starting with the 2001 season (when Griffey, Jr. was only 31 years old), the next six seasons saw Griffey, Jr. miss considerable time with nagging injuries. The types of injuries that have been linked to be caused by long-term steroid abuse.

Also, after the 2001 season his power flat out disappeared. Sure he had injuries, but players in their early 30s are supposed to be still in their prime. Looks a lot like steroids broke his body down and he had to get off the steroids.

And some of you will say he didn't pass the eye test. He wasn't huge. You obviously have no knowledge of steroids and the way they work. About half of the steroids available force your muscles to retain water, making them look much bigger. But, the other half like Primobolan actually don't. And this is one of the most used steroids according to the Mitchell report, even A-Rod used it.

There is no evidence Griffey used. The attack is an attempt to deflect attention.

Haha, thats fine just ignore all the evidence.

 

[tycobb420]

Rich what? Richmond![/color]]

There is no evidence Griffey used. The attack is an attempt to deflect attention.

Haha, thats fine just ignore all the evidence.

if there was evidence to ignore...

 

[mattym]

Bonds' first two NLCSes were awful, no doubt about it. I wouldn't say otherwise. But it isn't nearly enough to discount the bazillion great things about him, anymore than Ted's shitty World Series should label him as a choker. But people hate Barry because he's an asshole, so they give those first few playoff performances a lot more weight than they would with another guy. (For example, I'd be honest enough to say Barry Sanders was a choke artist in the playoffs, while most Detroiters would make excuses for him, because, you know, he played for the team we root for?)

Bonds also played in a World Series where he hit .471, had 4 HRs, 6 RBIs, scored 8 runs, and was intentionally walked 7 times. That doesn't sound like choking to me. And HE hit those home runs--a needle didn't morph into human form and hit them. HE did. If it was all steroids, then why wasn't everyone else putting up numbers even remotely approaching his?

And regarding AVS account, what's Bonds' account? Or should we take AVS's word as gospel and discount the other side?

That being said, I'll never say that Bonds wasn't an egotistical asshole. He was. But he was a great egotistical asshole.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

Circumstantial.

Many of his teammates, maybe the majority used Steroids. He grew up in the Reds organization, an organization that used several different now banned substances to gain an advantage including Pete Rose. He had amazing power for 11 straight years, then he leaves that team and the power flat out disappears. Some may say thanks to injuries, but those injuries are commonly caused by steroids.

Clear your head and think. He grew up around it, nearly all his friends/teammates used it, his body looks like it had the after effects of it, his season-by-season stats suggest it....

 

[mattym]

By the way, for the record (if anyone cares), I love Junior and I don't think he used steroids.

But he wasn't as good as Bonds, pre- or post-'Roids. That's alls I'm sayin'.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

Who doesn't love Junior, he will always have the sweetest swing in baseball history. Watching him hit a homerun probably made the pitcher feel alright about giving it up.

 

[beez]

Rich what? Richmond![/color]]Circumstantial.

Many of his teammates, maybe the majority used Steroids. He grew up in the Reds organization, an organization that used several different now banned substances to gain an advantage including Pete Rose. He had amazing power for 11 straight years, then he leaves that team and the power flat out disappears. Some may say thanks to injuries, but those injuries are commonly caused by steroids.

Clear your head and think. He grew up around it, nearly all his friends/teammates used it, his body looks like it had the after effects of it, his season-by-season stats suggest it....

Yet they have busted EVERYONE in baseball but him for it. I'm not going to condemn a guy who was riddled by injuries, never had any noticable physical changes, no odd behavior or anything of the sort until I have some kind of proof or at least firm accusation. Thats not fair at all.

 

[beez]

BTW for the people who said it's impossible to put up ridiculous numbers at an older age

Hank Aaron-

age 34- .297 + 29 hr

age 35- .300 + 44 hr

age 36- .298 + 38 hr

age 37- .327 + 47 hr

age 39- .301 + 40 hr


Not saying Bond didn't cheat but saying his numbers don't count because theres no way anyone could do it at his age is stupid.

 

[zoombabyzoom]

They havent busted everyone Beez. So many players got away with it. They have caught about 3.5% of the players during that era, reports say anywhere up to 70% used.

Not saying, Griffey did but there are some signs that point to it. However, I know everyone wants that one guy from the era to be the shining knight.

 

[beez]

Most of the "sluggers" have been caught it seems. Look at the homerun list.

 

[Mitchrapp]

BTW for the people who said it's impossible to put up ridiculous numbers at an older age

Hank Aaron-

age 34- .297 + 29 hr

age 35- .300 + 44 hr

age 36- .298 + 38 hr

age 37- .327 + 47 hr

age 39- .301 + 40 hr


Not saying Bond didn't cheat but saying his numbers don't count because theres no way anyone could do it at his age is stupid.

A couple of those seasons a bit less than 1000 OPS and a couple slightly more. Bonds had a 1422 at 39. That's a bit of difference.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Frank Thomas didn't. He regressed naturally.