Lions signed DE Israel Idonije

[LKP]

shitty job. Jenkins or khaseem greene would have been better than all of them. Lost value. Cant keep losing value in drafts like mayhew does and become a successful GM.

Gained a year of experience. You have no clue if those rookies are better. Palmer could end up being the best out of all this year. Mayhew got good value in every draft but 2011

 

[cheeno]

Mayhew's value is like any other crap you get at the 99 cent store. It looks useful on the shelf, but when you get it home it either sits in a drawer for a year or falls apart the first time you use it.

 

[tonyballs]

Look, I get it. But those bruiser, compliment type RB can be had much later. If you want to call him a short yardage back or a backup to Bush etc, then we should have drafted a guy like that in the later rounds. I don't want my 2nd round pick getting 800 yards. Even if it is a passing team.

I'd rather have a C, or deep threat WR or a CB or another S.

YOU dont want 800 yards? lol...oh ok. He would have been closer to 1000 but he missed 2 games so....

They love Raiola...dont ask why...they just do. You'll get your wish next year.

They have some young WRs....its looking a bit better now.

Slay is in the house and Quin is running shit.

See? Things are looking up. Leshoure wasnt a bad pick...

 

[tonyballs]

I agree. A high round pick RB needs to be a go to player. You can get good running backs like bell for nothing.

No you cant. What planet are you on? Not everyone turns into Arian Foster for fuck sakes

 

[Mitchrapp]

No you cant. What planet are you on? Not everyone turns into Arian Foster for fuck sakes

No but is it too much to ask a 2nd round pick to maybe pick up 1200ish yards and maybe make a run over 16 yards? I don't dislike him but Mayhew could have taken a 800 yard guy in a later round.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

No but is it too much to ask a 2nd round pick to maybe pick up 1200ish yards and maybe make a run over 16 yards? I don't dislike him but Mayhew could have taken a 800 yard guy in a later round.

Here are the numbers.

I looked over the last 10 drafts....(excluding 2013 of course, because they havent played)....ALL 2nd round RB selected....the number of years they played....800+ yard years and 1200+ yard years.



Number of 2nd round RB....23



Players....

Isiah Pead
LaMichael James
Ryan Williams
Shane Vareen
Mikel LeShoure
Daniel Thomas
Toby Gerhart
Ben Tate
Montario Hardesty
LeSean McCoy
Matt Forte
Ray Rice
Kenny Irons-according to profootball reference.....never played an NFL down
Chris Henry
Brandon Jackson
LenDale White
Maurice Jones-Drew
JJ Arrington
Eric Shelton-9 career carries
Tatum Bell
Julius Jones
Greg Jones-converted to FB after his first 4 years



Total Number of Seasons Played...85



Total # of 800+ yard season...24


Total # of 1200+ yard seasons...8



To be honest....a massive amount of those totals come from 4 guys....Jones Drew, Forte, Rice and McCoy. Those four have produced 17 of the 24 (71%) 800 yard years and ALL 8 of the 1200+ yard years.

To me, those numbers say that 2nd round RB RARELY produce even 800 yard seasons. To say that you would EXPECT more than 800 yards and maybe "1200 ish" yards isnt even a realistic expectation. Only 8 of the 23 drafted RB produced even ONE 800+ yard season in their entire career.

I understand that most of you think that you can just get an 800+ yard rusher later in the draft.....but it simply isn't true. Has it happened.....of course.....but the numbers will tell you that it is rare. The farther down in the draft you take a RB....the worse your chances of finding a gem are.

I still think LeShoure can be productive....but I just don't think this is the right offense for him. Now he is behind someone who will get a huge chunk of the carries AND catches. Hopefully, this year he can prove his value and we can trade him for a pick. Who knows.

 

[Mitchrapp]

That's not a surprise, booger. But my views, with the lack of 2nd round success from Mayhew, I wanted more. I wanted him to finally make some picks that at the end of the day we could say "Damn, how'd we get so lucky".

I can't see what LKP sees. I see less than average drafts after the first round. He sees guys like Whitehead and Greenwood and a bunch of others and says they will contribute. They haven't yet so why should I get a warm fuzzy now?

IMO, Mayhew is bad at drafting..

 

[boogerlovejoy]

That's not a surprise, booger. But my views, with the lack of 2nd round success from Mayhew, I wanted more. I wanted him to finally make some picks that at the end of the day we could say "Damn, how'd we get so lucky".

I can't see what LKP sees. I see less than average drafts after the first round. He sees guys like Whitehead and Greenwood and a bunch of others and says they will contribute. They haven't yet so why should I get a warm fuzzy now?

IMO, Mayhew is bad at drafting..

I can't argue with most of your points. I don't see a roster full of guys who are ready to become superstars either.

EVERY team wants their GM to hit on every pick....not just the Lions. But realistically, it NEVER happens. Every team misses. Sometimes big. Even the great Belicheat misses (Chad Jackson) big.

Hopefully a Greenwood or an Ashlee Palmer will step up this year. That would be really nice. I guess my point is that, though LeShoure was nowhere near good, his production in 2013 is actually closer to being "productive" than being bad......according to the recent history of 2nd round RB.

 

[LKP]

Not everyone is a superstar. Your percpetion of how much a late round RB should produce is wrong. And proven wrong above. Mayhew had added so much talent to this team and not just from Round 1. It's amazing how people think he is bad at acquiring talent. He's great at it. The 2012 season was turnover filled and that can be corrected and get the Lions back on the 2011 playoff track.


Round 1 and decent sized contract free agency he is the best. Trades for players have worked out a ton too with Houston, Hill, Scheffler, CW, Jackson.


Round 2 is filled with talent but unlucky injuries and unexpected things. Broyles/LeShoure/Delmas can easily save it.


Round 3/4 he's found enough talent/contributors with Levy, SLH, Bentley,Leshoure despite the misses of Wiliams, Spievey and maybe Ronnel Lewis. Whithead and Fox are unknowns right now so bashing those picks already is beyond dumb.


Anything from Round 5-7 is gravy. Jonte Green and Willie Young have made some contributions so far. 2010 was used for trades, 2011 was a miss (other than the trade for Jackson) and 2012/2013 is still TBD in Rounds 5-7.

 

[jrange378]

No you cant. What planet are you on? Not everyone turns into Arian Foster for fuck sakes

Not every high round pick does either. The difference is that one player is considered a bust when they fail and the other, not so, because nothing was expected. You can get good RB's in late rounds.

 

[cheeno]

Not everyone is a superstar. Your percpetion of how much a late round RB should produce is wrong. And proven wrong above. Mayhew had added so much talent to this team and not just from Round 1. It's amazing how people think he is bad at acquiring talent. He's great at it. The 2012 season was turnover filled and that can be corrected and get the Lions back on the 2011 playoff track.


Round 1 and decent sized contract free agency he is the best. Trades for players have worked out a ton too with Houston, Hill, Scheffler, CW, Jackson.

Houston: The way his two bouts of free agency went the league sees him as an average starter at best. Hill: Clip board holder with no developmental potential. Scheffler: Last year/may get cut. CW, Jackson: Not on team. Not on team.

Round 2 is filled with talent but unlucky injuries and unexpected things. Broyles/LeShoure/Delmas can easily save it.

And monkeys may fly out of my ass.


Round 3/4 he's found enough talent/contributors with Levy, SLH, Bentley,Leshoure despite the misses of Wiliams, Spievey and maybe Ronnel Lewis. Whithead and Fox are unknowns right now so bashing those picks already is beyond dumb.

Levy: sucks SLH: not on team Bentley: ? If we can't knock guys who haven't played you can't pedestal guys who haven't. Whitehead: reserving his spot in the East end zone with the rest of the Lions cheer squad. Fox: sponsored by life alert because he is always "fallin' and I can't get up!"

Anything from Round 5-7 is gravy. Jonte Green and Willie Young have made some contributions so far. 2010 was used for trades, 2011 was a miss (other than the trade for Jackson) and 2012/2013 is still TBD in Rounds 5-7.

This gravy tastes bad I want KFC gravy on McDonalds frys.

See above for my 2 cents.

Locked in talent CJ, Stafford, Suh. The rest ifs and buts and unknowns. That being said I like what they did this offseason, coincidently the same year we hire away someone from a successful franchise.

Bottom line 22-57. 0-16 was 5 years ago.

 

[tonyballs]

No but is it too much to ask a 2nd round pick to maybe pick up 1200ish yards and maybe make a run over 16 yards? I don't dislike him but Mayhew could have taken a 800 yard guy in a later round.

Law of averages say you're wrong. Booger pointed that out....sorry

 

[tonyballs]

Not every high round pick does either. The difference is that one player is considered a bust when they fail and the other, not so, because nothing was expected. You can get good RB's in late rounds.

Agree to disagree?

 

[LKP]

See above for my 2 cents.

Locked in talent CJ, Stafford, Suh. The rest ifs and buts and unknowns. That being said I like what they did this offseason, coincidently the same year we hire away someone from a successful franchise.

Bottom line 22-57. 0-16 was 5 years ago.

First of all 2009 is a Millen mess and 2010 they lost Stafford. I don't give a crap they were 16 under .500 in those years. They get a pass for several reasons.

14-18 (0-1) is the true record as far as I'm concerned. 1 good, one bad.

There is plenty proven talent other than those 3. The Lions need to get that talent turned into production. Reiff, Broyles, Bush, Sims,Tulloch, Houston, Delmas, Quin, Fairley, Ansah, Jones, Idonije can do that. And some support from Levy, Slay, Bentley, Warford, Fox, Palmer etc

To say only 3 guys have enough talent is absurd.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Not every high round pick does either. The difference is that one player is considered a bust when they fail and the other, not so, because nothing was expected. You can get good RB's in late rounds.

Hardly.

Sure, it has happened....but its a 1/100 shot at best. Most late round RB amount to JACK SQUAT and are livin in a van down by the river now.

Expecting ANY GM to come away with a good back later than the 3rd round isn't smart.

 

[cheeno]

Hardly.

Sure, it has happened....but its a 1/100 shot at best. Most late round RB amount to JACK SQUAT and are livin in a van down by the river now.

Expecting ANY GM to come away with a good back later than the 3rd round isn't smart.

1/100

Only eight of the top 20 rushers were round 1 picks. 1/2 were round three or later. 2nd behind AP was Alfred Morris 6th round. Getting a serviceable back to run against nickel D is like a 2/1 shot ie Bell (good) and Leshoure (fail).

 

[Mitchrapp]

Hardly.

Sure, it has happened....but its a 1/100 shot at best. Most late round RB amount to JACK SQUAT and are livin in a van down by the river now.

Expecting ANY GM to come away with a good back later than the 3rd round isn't smart.

You might be right but sometimes a team has to get it right for once and get a productive late round pick. Its been a long time since Detroit has had success in the late rounds..

 

[mhughes0021]

The simple fact weve drafted kevin smith, best, lecrap then went out and got bush when we don't even run the ball is absolutely ridiculous in its own right. The only one I agree with is Bush because of how much he will compliment the pass game. But to keep addressing rb when your team sucks balls at running the ball and you throw the ball 800 times in just plain dumb. They are finally starting to do it the right way and address the oline first. Then you can plug any rb you want back there and they can be productive (see Denver, Wash etc).

I equate it to mayhew standing in his office and banging his head against the wall.

 

[tonyballs]

The simple fact weve drafted kevin smith, best, lecrap then went out and got bush when we don't even run the ball is absolutely ridiculous in its own right. The only one I agree with is Bush because of how much he will compliment the pass game. But to keep addressing rb when your team sucks balls at running the ball and you throw the ball 800 times in just plain dumb. They are finally starting to do it the right way and address the oline first. Then you can plug any rb you want back there and they can be productive (see Denver, Wash etc).

I equate it to mayhew standing in his office and banging his head against the wall.

Thank God you agree with it then.....lol. And since the running game is so shit, you act surprised that they're trying to acquire different RBs? What a retarded statement......cheers.

 

[mhughes0021]

Thank God you agree with it then.....lol. And since the running game is so shit, you act surprised that they're trying to acquire different RBs? What a retarded statement......cheers.

So now you agree that leshoure is shit....youre finally coming around tony!