Matt Garza?

[Thumb]

Raburn really isn't that bad in the outfield. He had the home run ball bounce miscue, but he is not a bad outfielder by any means. If he was always in the outfield and not at 2nd base, people wouldn't even question his D.

No, his outfield D is bad, just much better than Young's is.

He was being called the "Butcher of Comerica" long before he ever played a game at 2B.

Raburn has a bad glove, but he actually has decent range in the OF, Delmon has neither.

I don;t like either of them as a season long LF'er, but if I had to choose between Ryan and Delmon, I'll take Raburn every time.

 

[jmakula87]

Raburn really isn't that bad in the outfield. He had the home run ball bounce miscue, but he is not a bad outfielder by any means. If he was always in the outfield and not at 2nd base, people wouldn't even question his D.

No, his outfield D is bad, just much better than Young's is.

He was being called the "Butcher of Comerica" long before he ever played a game at 2B.

Raburn has a bad glove, but he actually has decent range in the OF, Delmon has neither.

I don;t like either of them as a season long LF'er, but if I had to choose between Ryan and Delmon, I'll take Raburn every time.

Raburn has gotten a ton better in the field. And just because some people called him "Butcher of Comerica" doesn't mean that it has any legitimacy. But I have a feeling that this will just have to be an Agree to disagree situation

 

[mjsb2]

And lol at DY being better than Raburn.

Raburn has been better each of the last three seasons.

You're joking right? The only reason Raburn's numbers look semi acceptable are because he is so bad in the first half he gets benched and he comes back in the last two months and hits around .300. If he played a whole season his numbers would be around a .250 BA.

Yeah.

DY's career first half OPS of .715 is really that much better than Raburns .689. Oh wait, it's not, and Raburn is a better first half player going by career numbers when you consider he is much better than DY in every other aspect of the game.

And of course, RR's career .847 2nd half OPS is much better than DY's .781.

So basically, RR is a better player than Delmon Young, even if you go by 1st half numbers.

Might want to look up the stats before you get into this discussion.

 

[mjsb2]

Mitch[/color]]I'll take a little lesser hitter over someone who jokes it up for months at a time. Last season wasn't the first where Raburn went AWOL for a stretch at a time. They both k a ton, they both stink in the field but who knows, maybe DY is starting to figure it out. Granted, I hope we get a new LF but I'd be nuts saying I'm okay with one over the other. And would be insane think Raburn is much better.

What have you done for me lately as the saying goes. The last two years offensively, who has been better?

I've posted the numbers plenty of times, so I'll just sum up the main point....

DELMON YOUNG IS NO MORE CONSISTENT ON A MONTH TO MONTH BASIS THAN RYAN RABURN.

JUST LIKE RABURN, HE GOES MONTHS AT A TIME WHERE HE IS COMPLETELY USELESS AT THE PLATE.

As for the last two years offensively, they've been virtually even, with Raburn being the better defender and better baserunner.

 

[buddyboy2121]

Raburn is a utility player at best, he makes errors in the field or just plain misses balls he should have had and may we not forget all the times he thought he was Jeff Francouer and try to throw the runner out and sail it into the stands.

I would take Delmon over Raburn everyday because he isn't a complete idiot on the bases, actually hits the ball in the first half, and doesn't try to do too much with the ball in the field.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Raburn blows. He belongs in rookie ball.

 

[buddyboy2121]

Mitch[/color]]Raburn blows. He belongs in rookie ball.

This is the exact thing we all felt during the season but now that we have the "stat experts" here he is Jayson Werth. We had this same exact conversation last year with the same hopes, if he hits in the first half he is an average player. That didn't happen. The fact that he is 30 years old doesn't help out his cause either. We didn't make up the nickname Rugburn for nothing.

 

[Rebbiv]

Last 3 years 2nd Half vs 1st Half

Cabrera 135.84 RC/650 1.005 OPS vs 128.07 RC/650 .989 OPS +7.77 RC/650
Raburn 118.93 RC/650 .925 OPS vs 65.98 RC/650 .672 OPS +52.95 RC/650
Martinez 105.72 RC/650 .871 OPS vs 98.96 RC/650 .836 OPS +6.76 RC/650
Avila 99.51 RC/650 .837 OPS vs 87.82 RC/650 .791 OPS +11.69 RC/650
Young 86.92 RC/650 .799 OPS vs 68.68 RC/650 .712 OPS +18.24 RC/650
Jackson 79.33 RC/650 .720 OPS vs 78.82 RC/650 .716 OPS +0.51 RC/650

Kelly 74.46 RC/650 .713 OPS vs 56.41 RC/650 .612 OPS +18.05 RC/650
Santiago 72.85 RC/650 .702 OPS vs 66.08 RC/650 .671 OPS +6.77 RC/650

Peralta 68.29 RC/650 .698 OPS vs 82.29 RC/650 .763 OPS -14.00 RC/650
Inge 54.92 RC/650 .610 OPS vs 75.16 RC/650 .735 OPS -20.24 RC/650
Boesch 43.51 RC/650 .526 OPS vs 119.94 RC/650 .911 OPS -76.43 RC/650


Everyone on this list has had a better 2nd half over the last 3 years, except the last 3. Now, Boesch is the opposite extreme to Raburn.


Now, May has been Raburn's worse month by far.

Raburn's 1st half without May

78.64 RC/650 .739 OPS

Career by month

MAR/APR .746 OPS
MAY .465 OPS
JUN .751 OPS
JUL .776 OPS
AUG .852 OPS
SEP/OTC .891 OPS

DET's record in May for Raburn's starts from 2009-2011

20-11 .645



Finally, last 3 years UZR/150 for playing LF

Raburn 29.1 (9.7 per year)

Young -37.5 (-12.5 per year)


Zero would be average defensively. Raburn is above average defensively, Young is not even close. The difference between the 2 is 22 runs over 150 games.


TOTAL OFFENSE over last 3 years

Raburn 91.07 RC/650 .802 OPS

Young 78.07 RC/650 .758 OPS

The difference here is 13 runs. Add them together, and Raburn is 35 runs better than Young. Plain and simple.

I can live with Raburn. I cannot stand Young (or Inge) as a starter.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Raburn blows. I don't need stats to tell me that.

 

[Rebbiv]

Mitch[/color]]Raburn blows. I don't need stats to tell me that.

If in fact he blows...then back your argument up!

 

[Mitchrapp]

And your argument is what, that he's better than DY, that if you take out May and the fact the Tigers still win during that time? Betemit was better than Inge last year, doesn't mean I want him on the team.

 

[Thumb]

Mitch[/color]]Raburn blows. I don't need stats to tell me that.

I don't think anyone's arguing that Raburn does not blow, just that he blows much less than Delmon Young.

Lesser of two evils.


And to buddyboy: if Raburn blows and you don't need that stats to tell you that, then obviously you see that Young blows, or do you still have a tiny hard-on for him because of 1 series against the Yankees?

 

[Mitchrapp]

Raburn's career April/March -- .237 .316 .429 May -- .169 .205 .260 June -- .245 .306 .445. May is horrid but those other pre all star months suck as well.

If that doesn't suck I don't know what does.

 

[buddyboy2121]

[quote="Mitch"sqqohne]Raburn blows. I don't need stats to tell me that.

I don't think anyone's arguing that Raburn does not blow, just that he blows much less than Delmon Young.

Lesser of two evils.


And to buddyboy: if Raburn blows and you don't need that stats to tell you that, then obviously you see that Young blows, or do you still have a tiny hard-on for him because of 1 series against the Yankees?[/quotesqqohne]I hate Raburn more than anyone on the team outside of Inge and i don't want him on the team. If Raburn is better than Delmon why did we trade for Delmon and play him in LF over Raburn?

Sick of these stat arguments, you can make an argument that Raburn is better than Jayson Werth with those numbers and we all know they isn't true otherwise teams would want to trade for him.

The fact is Raburn is a 30 year old utility player that hits well in the second half and has almost no potential to go along with a glove soft as concrete.

Delmon is a 26 year old corner outfielder that hits well throughout the year and has potential that's why we almost traded him and a throw in prospect for Martin Prado.

 

[Rebbiv]

.759 OPS is average for a MLB LFer over the last 3 years.

Raburn

MAR/APR .746 OPS
MAY .465 OPS
JUN .751 OPS
JUL .776 OPS
AUG .852 OPS
SEP/OCT .891 OPS


Young

MAR/APR .630 OPS
MAY .674 OPS
JUN .767 OPS
JUL .899 OPS
AUG .717 OPS
SEP/OCT .783 OPS


Raburn's career MAR/APR and JUN is pretty close to an average LFer over the last 3 years. Only May "sucks". Yet, Young is below average MAR/APR, MAY and AUG.

Again, exept for one Month (which no one can explain why), Raburn is at least average or better as a LFer. Young is horrid, without one redeeming quality, unless you think a .284 BAVG means something. If that is the case, then you probably thought Randal Simon was a good player.

 

[buddyboy2121]

.759 OPS is average for a MLB LFer over the last 3 years.

Raburn

MAR/APR .746 OPS
MAY .465 OPS
JUN .751 OPS
JUL .776 OPS
AUG .852 OPS
SEP/OCT .891 OPS


Young

MAR/APR .630 OPS
MAY .674 OPS
JUN .767 OPS
JUL .899 OPS
AUG .717 OPS
SEP/OCT .783 OPS


Raburn's career MAR/APR and JUN is pretty close to an average LFer over the last 3 years. Only May "sucks". Yet, Young is below average MAR/APR, MAY and AUG.

Again, exept for one Month (which no one can explain why), Raburn is at least average or better as a LFer. Young is horrid, without one redeeming quality, unless you think a .284 BAVG means something. If that is the case, then you probably thought Randal Simon was a good player.

The problem is Raburn doesn't play LF he plays 2B because Leyland would rather have Young in LF than Raburn.

 

[Thumb]

[quote="MI_Thumb":8m89f4or]


I don't think anyone's arguing that Raburn does not blow, just that he blows much less than Delmon Young.

Lesser of two evils.


And to buddyboy: if Raburn blows and you don't need that stats to tell you that, then obviously you see that Young blows, or do you still have a tiny hard-on for him because of 1 series against the Yankees?

I hate Raburn more than anyone on the team outside of Inge and i don't want him on the team. If Raburn is better than Delmon why did we trade for Delmon and play him in LF over Raburn?

Sick of these stat arguments, you can make an argument that Raburn is better than Jayson Werth with those numbers and we all know they isn't true otherwise teams would want to trade for him.

The fact is Raburn is a 30 year old utility player that hits well in the second half and has almost no potential to go along with a glove soft as concrete.

Delmon is a 26 year old corner outfielder that hits well throughout the year and has potential that's why we almost traded him and a throw in prospect for Martin Prado. [/quote:8m89f4or]


We didn't play Young over Raburn in LF, cause at the time Raburn was our 2Bman.

And Delmon got lifted plenty of times for better defense, by Raburn.

 

[Thumb]

.759 OPS is average for a MLB LFer over the last 3 years.

Raburn

MAR/APR .746 OPS
MAY .465 OPS
JUN .751 OPS
JUL .776 OPS
AUG .852 OPS
SEP/OCT .891 OPS


Young

MAR/APR .630 OPS
MAY .674 OPS
JUN .767 OPS
JUL .899 OPS
AUG .717 OPS
SEP/OCT .783 OPS


Raburn's career MAR/APR and JUN is pretty close to an average LFer over the last 3 years. Only May "sucks". Yet, Young is below average MAR/APR, MAY and AUG.

Again, exept for one Month (which no one can explain why), Raburn is at least average or better as a LFer. Young is horrid, without one redeeming quality, unless you think a .284 BAVG means something. If that is the case, then you probably thought Randal Simon was a good player.

The problem is Raburn doesn't play LF he plays 2B because Leyland would rather have Young in LF than Raburn.

Okay just stop, you're digging a hole that does not get deeper and deeper, it gets stupider and stupider.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Who cares if he's better than Young. He stinks too.

 

[Thumb]

Mitch[/color]]Who cares if he's better than Young. He stinks too.

This point has been made you know.