MSU basektball recruiting

[SpartyNash]

Because I'd rather see elite kids play in the B1G (except wisco - i really don't like wisco). I'm not a defeatist, so I'm not counting at Purdue as a loss just because they have Swanigan. He doesn't guarantee them any wins, not one. But getting elite players to stay in the area and play at B1G schools is good for us in the long run.

I see what you mean but I somewhat disagree. Of course I like to see the conference competitive and doing well, so getting top players to stay is important, but when recruits spurn us for other schools (especially lesser programs like Purdue, no offense to them) in the same conference I don't think it is good for us in the end. I just hate losing out on big recruits to other schools in our conference, I would rather lose them to Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc.

I will say this, I would rather him go to Purdue than Kentucky every day of the week.

 

[Sbee]

Because I'd rather see elite kids play in the B1G (except wisco - i really don't like wisco). I'm not a defeatist, so I'm not counting at Purdue as a loss just because they have Swanigan. He doesn't guarantee them any wins, not one. But getting elite players to stay in the area and play at B1G schools is good for us in the long run.

say the game at Purdue is a 50/50 game without swanigan but it's a 35% chance for a win with him, I'd rather him play for Cal and give us a better chance for a big ten title, which is better off for us in the long run.

 

[johnny2x2x]

Jonathon Williams III is setting up a visit to MSU now. Would have to sit a year, but he's a nice player.

 

[Sbee]

Jonathon Williams III is setting up a visit to MSU now. Would have to sit a year, but he's a nice player.

decent consolation prize, not biggie but he will be an impact player for us, especially with a year off to work out and improve his game

 

[Spartanmack]

I see what you mean but I somewhat disagree. Of course I like to see the conference competitive and doing well, so getting top players to stay is important, but when recruits spurn us for other schools (especially lesser programs like Purdue, no offense to them) in the same conference I don't think it is good for us in the end. I just hate losing out on big recruits to other schools in our conference, I would rather lose them to Duke, UNC, Kansas, etc.

I will say this, I would rather him go to Purdue than Kentucky every day of the week.

No doubt it sucks to have an elite kid decommit but I disagree on the other point - the more elite kids go to dook, the harder it is for MSU and the B1G in general to get the next kid. Just look at the pipeline dook has into Chicago - they probably have more success there than any 3 B1G teams combined. No doubt dook and ku together do better in Chicago than the top 3 B1G schools. And not that I give a crap about the NBA, but all those dook, ky, unc, ku kids become high draft picks and a bunch become moderate to very successful NBA players and they become recruiting tools for those schools.

The more elite players stay in the B1G, the more it lifts the B1G profile. The more they go to the SEC, ACC, Big 12, PAC 12, the wider the pipeline to those schools/conferences gets...

 

[Spartanmack]

say the game at Purdue is a 50/50 game without swanigan but it's a 35% chance for a win with him, I'd rather him play for Cal and give us a better chance for a big ten title, which is better off for us in the long run.

say it's 30/70 or 70/30 and Swanigan only takes it to 45/55 or up to 85/15. You can pick your starting point to make your argument sound better but how do you know what the starting point is and how he impacts it? It's meaningless. Besides, iIt's one game, maybe 2 if he stays and the second one will be in Breslin. If we win the game, it helps our profile and if we lose the game it's not the end of the world. But having him play 30 games for a B1G team raises the profile for the B1G and possibly for us. Him having success at Cal doesn't help at all. It actually hurts because midwest kids start watching PAC12 games, then he tells other Indiana/midwest elite players how nice it is in Berkeley, no snow, what a great guy Cuonzo Martin is, etc, etc, etc.

Obviously, this is just a single case - I'm arguing we need elite kids in general to play in hte B1G, not just Swanigan but every bit helps.

Cal would be better than one of the powerhouse teams, but Purdue is still better

 

[Sbee]

say it's 30/70 or 70/30 and Swanigan only takes it to 45/55 or up to 85/15. You can pick your starting point to make your argument sound better but how do you know what the starting point is and how he impacts it? It's meaningless. Besides, iIt's one game, maybe 2 if he stays and the second one will be in Breslin. If we win the game, it helps our profile and if we lose the game it's not the end of the world. But having him play 30 games for a B1G team raises the profile for the B1G and possibly for us. Him having success at Cal doesn't help at all. It actually hurts because midwest kids start watching PAC12 games, then he tells other Indiana/midwest elite players how nice it is in Berkeley, no snow, what a great guy Cuonzo Martin is, etc, etc, etc.

Obviously, this is just a single case - I'm arguing we need elite kids in general to play in hte B1G, not just Swanigan but every bit helps.

Cal would be better than one of the powerhouse teams, but Purdue is still better

I would rather have msu win a lesser conference than come in 2nd in a stronger conference. I want everything to unfold in a way that helps us win, I wanted Melo trimble to go to the nba, I want Swanigan to go to cal not only to help is in conference but to stay away from traditional powers as not have any team that is stacked like UK was this year. I want what's best for MSU, I really don't care about what's best for the big ten unless it directly helps us.

 

[Spartanmack]

Coming in 2nd in the ACC didn't seem to hurt dook much this year - no ACC or ACC Tourney banner I guess but I think they're probably OK with that.

You're taking a very narrow, short-sighted view. How much do you think Swanigan going to Purdue impacts our chances of winning the B1G? Having elite players play in the B1G, particularly regional kids does help us a great deal by lifting the profile for the B1G overall. If MSU wants to compete with dook (and let's face it, we don't), we have to compete with them on the recruiting trail. The only way to break up dynasties like dook is to beat them on the floor. In order to do that, we need to beat them on the recruiting trail. Right now, we can't do either.

 

[Sbee]

Coming in 2nd in the ACC didn't seem to hurt dook much this year - no ACC or ACC Tourney banner I guess but I think they're probably OK with that.

You're taking a very narrow, short-sighted view. How much do you think Swanigan going to Purdue impacts our chances of winning the B1G? Having elite players play in the B1G, particularly regional kids does help us a great deal by lifting the profile for the B1G overall. If MSU wants to compete with dook (and let's face it, we don't), we have to compete with them on the recruiting trail. The only way to break up dynasties like dook is to beat them on the floor. In order to do that, we need to beat them on the recruiting trail. Right now, we can't do either.

Yes we need to beat Duke for players, Kansas and Kentucky too, that's important. I don't see Swanigan going to Purdue helps us compete with Duke for players, I don't think high school kids really care about that. UK is pretty dominant in their conference other than an occasional threat from Florida and Kansas gets stud players and the rest of the pac 12 pretty much sucks, doesn't seem to hurt them.

 

[Spartanmack]

Yes we need to beat Duke for players, Kansas and Kentucky too, that's important. I don't see Swanigan going to Purdue helps us compete with Duke for players, I don't think high school kids really care about that. UK is pretty dominant in their conference other than an occasional threat from Florida and Kansas gets stud players and the rest of the pac 12 pretty much sucks, doesn't seem to hurt them.

Again, very narrow viewpoint. Like I said above, it's not just Swanigan or any one player - this case is just a recent example to spark the conversation. Dook is also just one example - I've been listing ky, ku and even unc throughout this conversation as other examples of teams that regularly out-recruit us. Whether you think it's justified or not, dook, ku, ky and unc all have a higher national profile than we do. They all draw elite talent from all over the country and collectively, they consistently out-recruit us and the B1G for elite midwest talent. That's not a good outcome when you're model is to concentrate recruiting within driving distance of the school.

 

[Sbee]

Again, very narrow viewpoint. Like I said above, it's not just Swanigan or any one player - this case is just a recent example to spark the conversation. Dook is also just one example - I've been listing ky, ku and even unc throughout this conversation as other examples of teams that regularly out-recruit us. Whether you think it's justified or not, dook, ku, ky and unc all have a higher national profile than we do. They all draw elite talent from all over the country and collectively, they consistently out-recruit us and the B1G for elite midwest talent. That's not a good outcome when you're model is to concentrate recruiting within driving distance of the school.

I agree on everytyhing you said, I just don't think Swanigan going to Purdue instead of Cal helps us in any real way but it can hurts us

 

[Spartanmack]

In the short run, maybe it makes it harder to win a B1G title if we have to beat a better Purdue team. It's hard to quantify but I think that risk is negligible as no one game wins or loses conference championships in basketball. In the long run, I think it's critical to keep regional elite talent in the B1G. It raises the conferences profile and that's good for us.

It's really kind of surprising (and disappointing) when you realize that the competition for elite midwest talent often is between dook, ku, ky sometimes unc or ucla and 1 B1G school. It almost never comes down to race between multiple B1G schools.

 

[johnny2x2x]

LOL. Swanigan is going to commit to California, but he needs them to make room first. Purdue isn't getting him.

 

[Spartan23MSU]

LOL. Swanigan is going to commit to California, but he needs them to make room first. Purdue isn't getting him.

Such a weird scenario. Im not being the sour sally here but why the fuck would he ever do that? :shrug:

 

[Spartanmack]

You guys need new insiders.

Guess we don't.

I think this latest rumor du jour settles the debate. this helps illustrate the point:

http://www.hammerandrails.com/2015/5/11/8589023/monday-caleb-swanigan-recruiting-update

These insiders are basically worthless.

 

[MSUMatt28]

Yawn. And you know these kids just eat up all the attention on something like this.

Certainly I'd have liked to see him in Green and White vs not, but I suspect he will go somewhere average something like 10 ppg as freshmen (in something considerably less than the 30 mpg he supposedly desires), then bolt after 1 year and get picked in the late first/early second round.

 

[LuciousGameWinner]

I've always liked those bulky centers. I miss having a Nix on the team.

 

[dubbsco]

Two sides to this coin. Part of me says you guys are better off without his shenanigans, the other part says that Izzo's been recruiting this dude for years, he's an elite prospect, and MSU has been coming up short with these guys.

 

[Spartanmack]

I've always liked those bulky centers. I miss having a Nix on the team.

I miss Randolph but don't really miss Nix. Plus, have you seen Swanigan lately? He looks like he's lost a lot of the fat and put on lean mass - looks totally different. Not sure if that hurts his game as a below the rim player (he's still a beast) but he definitely looks like he's hit the weight room and maybe he's eating a little different too...

then

now

 

[Sbee]

offense works best when it's inside out, this kid has a great post game and he's also a great post passer, he would be a force in east lansing.

Also, I can't believe the stuff about the chef and dorm, Izzo would never go for that