MSU pres. Resigns

[hungry]

And don't start with the ol' "You're a Michigan fan and you hate MSU and their athletics, so your word is tainted" line. If it isn't about the rivalries, then you should just leave things like this in your head. I'm not loving this. it is the topic and I'm discussing it. I'm not going to stop just because I root for Michigan.

 

[Sbee]

Walton was Izzo's assistant coach, grad asst, or whatever AND Walton lived with Izzo. A guy like that doesn't leave without telling his coach why.

I'm sure Walton told Izzo his reasoning, but that may not be reliable. I don't think he's going to say it's because there's a potential rape accusation coming in 1 year.

I'll back Izzo on the Appling/Payne thing, even the Walton assault thing since that was handled by the legal system, but I am withholding judgement on this potential sexual assault until there are more details. We need to know the timeline and what the accusation was, what was done, etc. I love the man as a coach but we need an explanation before I would let him off the hook on this accusation.

 

[hungry]

Maybe Walton just left to pursue other opportunities and expand his horizons. Maybe he left for actual legitimate reasons. Maybe he wanted to see the world and coach in Europe. Maybe he felt that his career at MSU had peaked and wanted to go elsewhere to continue his coaching. All of those are perfectly legitimate reasons to leave MSU, but for a head coach that was living with the guy to say, " I don't know?" That seems very odd. Maybe he was told to say that.

 

[Sbee]

And don't start with the ol' "You're a Michigan fan and you hate MSU and their athletics, so your word is tainted" line. If it isn't about the rivalries, then you should just leave things like this in your head. I'm not loving this. it is the topic and I'm discussing it. I'm not going to stop just because I root for Michigan.

Fair enough, I took a comment to be slanted from a fans point of view. I take it back

 

[Gulo Blue]

What I have read is that doctors (albeit with ties to Nassar) corroborated the claim that the procedure was legitimate and necessary. They advised him to always have another doctor in the room if he was going to do it, a stipulation that was ignored by Nassar and not followed up on by MSU. That's a major failure there.

My instinct is that these doctors were not informed of the details. I'm very skeptical of the idea that there happened to be 4 medical professions that all made monsterous decisions.

 

[Sbee]

Maybe Walton just left to pursue other opportunities and expand his horizons. Maybe he left for actual legitimate reasons. Maybe he wanted to see the world and coach in Europe. Maybe he felt that his career at MSU had peaked and wanted to go elsewhere to continue his coaching. All of those are perfectly legitimate reasons to leave MSU, but for a head coach that was living with the guy to say, " I don't know?" That seems very odd. Maybe he was told to say that.

possibly, maybe he didn't know for certain and didn't want to speculate. This is exactly why we need details on this incident and the silence just makes it worse.

 

[hungry]

Well, I'm sorry that I don't share your feelings about the Ingham County prosecuting office that was being run by a convicted rapist. I have had personal experience with these people who kidnap and trap these sex slaves and sell them to people like Dunnings III was a part of, not just with my job, but in my personal life with someone I know well. I'm surprised that everything that went through his office while he was there isn't under fire. I don't trust a rapist to properly handle rape cases.

 

[Sbee]

My instinct is that these doctors were not informed of the details. I'm very skeptical of the idea that there happened to be 4 medical professions that all made monsterous decisions.

I agree that the doctors weren't all given context, I don't even know that they knew it was Nassar or just a hypothetical situation. Generally, in these title 9 investigations, the name of the accused is kept secret while the investigation is pending. Simon was told that it was an unnamed doctor, so it's possible the doctors who they consulted didn't know who it was.

I have a family member with a debilitating spinal condition and pelvic manipulation was recommended to her by her doctor well before this was a public issue. I agree that the doctors decision was disastrous, but I don't believe there was intent to cover up abuse.

 

[tinselwolverine]

And don't start with the ol' "You're a Michigan fan and you hate MSU and their athletics, so your word is tainted" line. If it isn't about the rivalries, then you should just leave things like this in your head. I'm not loving this. it is the topic and I'm discussing it. I'm not going to stop just because I root for Michigan.

This is a huge national/international story. It's dominating media coverage here in Los Angeles where relatively few people have anything to do with the University of Michigan or Michigan State University, nor care a whole lot about the sports programs of either.

 

[Gulo Blue]

One thing for Michigan fans to consider is that some fraction of the population is going to assume this happened at U of M. Non sports fans in particular get us confused all the time.

 

[Sbee]

Well, I'm sorry that I don't share your feelings about the Ingham County prosecuting office that was being run by a convicted rapist. I have had personal experience with these people who kidnap and trap these sex slaves and sell them to people like Dunnings III was a part of, not just with my job, but in my personal life with someone I know well. I'm surprised that everything that went through his office while he was there isn't under fire. I don't trust a rapist to properly handle rape cases.

You can doubt the findings of the Prosecutors office, Dunnings wasn't the only person involved. Debra Bouck was the one who screened the case, met with the woman. the letter states that ms bouck was the one who made the decision.

Ms. Bouck called her to indicate that no charges would be filed. Ms. Bouck also indicated the rationale for her decision and that the young woman could come in to meet with her to discuss this matter. Ms. Bouck then reviewed the case with Chief Assistant Prosecutor Lisa McCormick, who agreed with the decision.

We don't have to talk this one to death but I agree with the findings of the prosecutors office, if we don't agree that the legal authority is a legitimate arbiter of if a crime occurred, then it's hard to have a discussion about it. It seems as if you're trying to link this to Dunnings on his own when there were multiple people involved in that decision and the document states that it was the decision of the assistant prosecutor, who conducted the majority of the investigation.

https://detroit.sbnation.com/michig...5808/michigan-state-basketball-sexual-assault

 

[hungry]

You do understand, though, that he was the boss. He very well could've told them to do this. It, at least, is a possibility.

Yes, I know it's tough when the integrity of law enforcement officials comes up. There are a lot of tough things going on. If any other prosecuting office was headed up by a convicted rapist, I think there should be a lot of questions about how business was handled there, as well.

 

[tinselwolverine]

One thing for Michigan fans to consider is that some fraction of the population is going to assume this happened at U of M. Non sports fans in particular get us confused all the time.

I don't think it's going to be that many. The coverage I see continually refers to East Lansing.

Besides, if a fraction does assume that, it's the fraction of really, really stupid people anyway - people who are too stupid to matter.

 

[Sbee]

You do understand, though, that he was the boss. He very well could've told them to do this. It, at least, is a possibility.

Yes, I know it's tough when the integrity of law enforcement officials comes up. There are a lot of tough things going on. If any other prosecuting office was headed up by a convicted rapist, I think there should be a lot of questions about how business was handled there, as well.

a lot of things are possible, but I don't think he had an agenda to cover up a rape. If anything, people who do bad things behind closed doors seem to be the first to accuse others doing the same thing they're doing. That's anecdotal and speculative, but given that many others agreed that no crime was committed and Dunning wasn't the one to interview the accuser, I think it's only fair to trust the findings of the office. You're free to dispute it and have your doubts, but from a legal standpoint, the players were cleared.


The real concern is this Walton rape accusation, we need to know what people knew and when they knew it and what action was taken. That's the focus of this story now, rightfully so.

 

[Gulo Blue]

I don't think it's going to be that many. The coverage I see continually refers to East Lansing.

Besides, if a fraction does assume that, it's the fraction of really, really stupid people anyway - people who are too stupid to matter.

Or busy people/people that half pay attention to sports. I've had smart people bring up Duke Lacrosse years after it happened with no idea the players were cleared. Had smart people see my Michigan shirt and ask me about winning the basketball championship when MSU won it in 2000 too.

 

[tinselwolverine]

Or busy people/people that half pay attention to sports. I've had smart people bring up Duke Lacrosse years after it happened with no idea the players were cleared.

Right. They didn't know that the Duke players were cleared.

But nobody thought it had been the NC State Lacrosse team.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Right. They didn't know that the Duke players were cleared.

But nobody thought it had been the NC State Lacrosse team.

That's because NC State isn't called "Duke State". People confuse "University of X" with "X State" all the time.

 

[Gulo Blue]

Even ESPN makes that mistake sometimes.

 

[Michchamp]

I haven't read the title IX report, but I'm not sure they were asked if specific cases were necessary or if Nassar was following procedure. At least one description I've heard suggests they were only asked if the procedure is medically legit.

Now, I'm not a doctor, but I have a hard time understanding how it wasn't mind-blowingly-obvious to everyone - not just actual medical doctors - that fingering the vag and groping and massaging breasts could not possibly be considered valid medical treatment for lower back pain, a sore hip, a high ankle sprain or any of other typical sports-related injuries gymnasts commonly suffer.

Even chiropractors don't officially go that far, and they claim all sorts of absurd shit.

 

[Michchamp]

I don't think it's going to be that many. The coverage I see continually refers to East Lansing.

Besides, if a fraction does assume that, it's the fraction of really, really stupid people anyway - people who are too stupid to matter.

I agree with this.

People who confuse MSU with UM are too stupid to matter.

It's not worth our concern.