Nelson Cruz

[stonecold2136]

Nelson Cruz is Garbage!!!!!

 

[biggunsbob]

.268/.327/.495/.823 in his career.
last year he was
266/.327/.506/.833
with 27 homers.. at 33 he would be a gamble and his k/bb rate is poor/
35/109

I know we need some power but I just don't know if I want him.

 

[SpartyNash]

Saw this on Twitter from Chris Iott this morning. He seems to think it's pretty unlikely. http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2014/01/analysis_detroit_tigers_longsh.html

 

[Mitchrapp]

Saw this on Twitter from Chris Iott this morning. He seems to think it's pretty unlikely. http://www.mlive.com/tigers/index.ssf/2014/01/analysis_detroit_tigers_longsh.html

Doesn't really make any sense.

 

[food4thought]

Nelson Cruz 3 year splits.

http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/splits/_/id/6242/type/batting3/nelson-cruz

Note particularly his home/away (REALLY significant when you take into account that he was basically the same hitter at home and on the road last year when we know he was on PED's, so he ABSOLUTELY SUCKED on the road the 2 previous years), also note that he has only 1 HR and 3 doubles in 54 AB's at Comerica during the last 3 years.

We just spent several million on Davis to platoon in LF with Dirks, and have Martinez locked in at DH. No way do I want to add the wear and tear of 3B to Miggy in a year when we'll need his bat more than ever, so moving Miggy to 3rd and Martinez to 1B so Cruz can DH really isn't a good idea either.

Just doesn't make sense. If we spend more money, it should be on an extra late innings reliever.

 

[turok]

The Tigers need a LH power bat in the lineup after dumping Fielder, or better still, the bench, but I dunno where he could come from. They obviously can't really afford to lose anyone worthwhile in the minors, and I am not sure that they have very much left anyway, from trades that they have made since '06.

FA is likely the only means of obtaining someone,and the pickings were slim and very expen$ive this offseason.

Too bad that they can't find the anti-Kelly, who would be at least halfway-decent with the bat off the bench, but not so much in the field.

If one or both of VMart and Hunter depart after next season, who is gonna replace them? I don't follow their teams in the minors that closely, but I haven't read or heard about anyone who plays the OF being close to ML-ready.

Although the Tigers still appear to be a team that should be good enough to clinch the ALCD title for the 4th consecutive season, the falloff in '15 might be dramatic, especially if their brass is going to continue to pick from the baseball bargain-bin, and won't try to resign or extend their players who are close to becoming FAs.

 

[Rebbiv]

Last 3 Years Overall

Player A (33) .263 BAVG .319 OBP .489 SLG .808 OPS

Player B (31) .262 BAVG .341 OBP .438 SLG .779 OPS


Last 3 Years Away

Player A (33) .247 BAVG .299 OBP .432 SLG .731 OPS

Player B (31) .231 BAVG .303 OBP .387 SLG .690 OPS


Player A = Nelson Cruz

Player B = Ian Kinsler

Why aren't the same people dissing Cruz, also dissing the arrival of Kinsler?

 

[Thundercats]

Last 3 Years Overall

Player A (33) .263 BAVG .319 OBP .489 SLG .808 OPS

Player B (31) .262 BAVG .341 OBP .438 SLG .779 OPS


Last 3 Years Away

Player A (33) .247 BAVG .299 OBP .432 SLG .731 OPS

Player B (31) .231 BAVG .303 OBP .387 SLG .690 OPS


Player A = Nelson Cruz

Player B = Ian Kinsler

Why aren't the same people dissing Cruz, also dissing the arrival of Kinsler?

Most likely because one is a 2nd baseman and the other is an outfielder/DH.

 

[lonesometiger]

Last 3 Years Overall

Player A (33) .263 BAVG .319 OBP .489 SLG .808 OPS

Player B (31) .262 BAVG .341 OBP .438 SLG .779 OPS


Last 3 Years Away

Player A (33) .247 BAVG .299 OBP .432 SLG .731 OPS

Player B (31) .231 BAVG .303 OBP .387 SLG .690 OPS


Player A = Nelson Cruz

Player B = Ian Kinsler

Why aren't the same people dissing Cruz, also dissing the arrival of Kinsler?

Tigers all ready got one (Fielder trade) why get a second one. PED could have something to do with it as well.

 

[Rebbiv]

Most likely because one is a 2nd baseman and the other is an outfielder/DH.

Last 3 years

MLB Average LF = .254 BAVG .317 OBP .409 SLG .726 OPS

MLB Average 2B = .260 BAVG .319 OBP .386 SLG .705 OPS

Cruz' .731 OPS is certainly on par with an average LFer.

Kinsler's .690 OPS is below average for the average 2B.

Again, except for PED use as part of the argument, the stats still show the same type of player....average to below average.

 

[Thumb]

Why aren't the same people dissing Cruz, also dissing the arrival of Kinsler?

I think it has less to do with Kinsler himself, and more to do with Fielder getting traded away. Same reason people kept insisting we saved tons of money per season after the trade, no matter how many times the actual numbers were posted.

 

[spockmaster]

Last 3 Years Overall

Player A (33) .263 BAVG .319 OBP .489 SLG .808 OPS

Player B (31) .262 BAVG .341 OBP .438 SLG .779 OPS


Last 3 Years Away

Player A (33) .247 BAVG .299 OBP .432 SLG .731 OPS

Player B (31) .231 BAVG .303 OBP .387 SLG .690 OPS


Player A = Nelson Cruz

Player B = Ian Kinsler

Why aren't the same people dissing Cruz, also dissing the arrival of Kinsler?

I wasnt a fan of getting Kinsler either, but at least Kinsler can competently play defense and run the bases. We're stuck with Kinsler, we dont have to be stuck with Cruz.

 

[food4thought]

I am surprised to see that Kinsler has hit so poorly over the last few years... didn't he have some injury issues? I'll have to look into his numbers after work tonight. Thanks for the info Rebiv.

 

[stonecold2136]

Last 3 years

MLB Average LF = .254 BAVG .317 OBP .409 SLG .726 OPS

MLB Average 2B = .260 BAVG .319 OBP .386 SLG .705 OPS

Cruz' .731 OPS is certainly on par with an average LFer.

Kinsler's .690 OPS is below average for the average 2B.

Again, except for PED use as part of the argument, the stats still show the same type of player....average to below average.

Kinsler is actually a good player. A few things you left out

Last 3 years 103 Runs 35 Doubles 21 HR 21 SB .341 OBP 4.6 WAR

I have recently purchased my Authentic #3 Kinsler home jersey. He is my 2nd favorite Tiger. Can't wait to see him wearing the old Engish D.

 

[Rebbiv]

Kinsler is actually a good player. A few things you left out

Last 3 years 103 Runs 35 Doubles 21 HR 21 SB .341 OBP 4.6 WAR

I have recently purchased my Authentic #3 Kinsler home jersey. He is my 2nd favorite Tiger. Can't wait to see him wearing the old Engish D.

Where did you get those numbers? They do not equate to anything (overall, home or away). Beside that, they are counting stats and mean nothing by themselves.

Additionally, WAR is a terrible stat because of the unreliable nature of defensive metrics, which accounts for 50% of WAR.

Last 3 years Away Rankings for MLB 2B (31 Qualify with 500 PA Minimum):

Kinsler 7th in Speed

Kinsler 8th in ISO


Kinsler 16th in SLG

Kinsler 19th in OPS

Kinsler 20th in wOBA

Kinsler 20th in wRC+

Kinsler 22nd in wRAA

Kinlser 27th in OBP


Kinsler has speed and power. He in barely a top 10 defensive 2B. Aside from all of that, he is terrible getting on base outside of Arlington.

 

[stonecold2136]

He is a good player. I used last 3 years complete totals. Not just away.

His sample size numbers in Comerica are not good. But he was going against Verlander, Scherzer, Sanchez , Porcello , Fister and few others sprinkled in there. He is a professional hitter. No doubt in my mind he will have Comerica park figured out by May 1st

While I liked Fielder his comments after the playoffs got my blood boiling.

Now that he is gone we don't have to watch him try to play 1B. Plus the Knsler contract is back loaded, he makes less each year as the contract goes on.

Ian Kinsler and Aaron Hill are both 2 players whose stats are all over the place. You really cannot project ether players stats before the season starts.

 

[Rebbiv]

He is a good player. I used last 3 years complete totals. Not just away.

His sample size numbers in Comerica are not good. But he was going against Verlander, Scherzer, Sanchez , Porcello , Fister and few others sprinkled in there. He is a professional hitter. No doubt in my mind he will have Comerica park figured out by May 1st

While I liked Fielder his comments after the playoffs got my blood boiling.

Now that he is gone we don't have to watch him try to play 1B. Plus the Knsler contract is back loaded, he makes less each year as the contract goes on.

Ian Kinsler and Aaron Hill are both 2 players whose stats are all over the place. You really cannot project ether players stats before the season starts.

Again, those totals do not equal ANYTHING.

The cost of Kinsler per year:

2014 = $16 Mil
2015 = $16 Mil
2016 = $20 Mil
2017 = $17 Mil
2018 = $16 Mil (or $11 Mil even if his option isn't picked up)
2019 = $6 Mil
2020 = $6 Mil

 

[tomdalton22]

Again, those totals do not equal ANYTHING.

The cost of Kinsler per year:

2014 = $16 Mil
2015 = $16 Mil
2016 = $20 Mil
2017 = $17 Mil
2018 = $16 Mil (or $11 Mil even if his option isn't picked up)
2019 = $6 Mil
2020 = $6 Mil

when a player is traded and there are cash considerations how and when does the cash count towards the luxury tax threshhold....or does it?

 

[stonecold2136]

They do equal something. Kinsler is a huge part of the remade Tigers. A more athletic, better defensive team that has speed to burn.

It looks sorta like the model Boston used last year. Everyone thought the Red Sox would be beat like the red headed step child of the east. But they proved everyone wrong.

With the steriod era behind us. Loading a team up with a bunch of no speed, no glove, power hitter DH/1B/LF type of players is a thing of the past.

 

[Rebbiv]

They do equal something. Kinsler is a huge part of the remade Tigers. A more athletic, better defensive team that has speed to burn.

It looks sorta like the model Boston used last year. Everyone thought the Red Sox would be beat like the red headed step child of the east. But they proved everyone wrong.

With the steriod era behind us. Loading a team up with a bunch of no speed, no glove, power hitter DH/1B/LF type of players is a thing of the past.

So...in summary...the counting stats you posted cannot be referenced anywhere else...Cruz' away stats make him "garbage", where Kinsler's are irrelevant because he is Detroit's savor.