Stafford first Lion QB in 44 years.....

[dtroitlionsfan951]

I didn't know he fumbled twice. Was flippin back and forth....thanks

He didnt really. One was a snap by the olineman that was when stafford was calling adjustments

 

[dubbsco]

Wait, wait... People actually watched this game?

 

[brewer229]

Must of played better than I saw. I turned on the game saw him throw behind Tate on a simple crossing route, laughed and changed the channel. On highlights I saw OBj make a great adjustment on an under thrown deep ball. And I saw Watt make a good read and step back and get hit dead center on the body for a pick.

Not sure if he won because of shear quantity of playing time or he deserved it, but congrats to him I guess.

Hopefully there is nothing in his contract that makes money guaranteed by winning probowl "honors"

 

[tonyballs]

Must of played better than I saw. I turned on the game saw him throw behind Tate on a simple crossing route, laughed and changed the channel. On highlights I saw OBj make a great adjustment on an under thrown deep ball. And I saw Watt make a good read and step back and get hit dead center on the body for a pick.

Not sure if he won because of shear quantity of playing time or he deserved it, but congrats to him I guess.

Hopefully there is nothing in his contract that makes money guaranteed by winning probowl "honors"

Don't look into it or worry about it too much. You might hurt yourself...lol.

 

[grandy]

Stafford is a top 5 flag football QB

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Must of played better than I saw. I turned on the game saw him throw behind Tate on a simple crossing route, laughed and changed the channel. On highlights I saw OBj make a great adjustment on an under thrown deep ball. And I saw Watt make a good read and step back and get hit dead center on the body for a pick.

Not sure if he won because of shear quantity of playing time or he deserved it, but congrats to him I guess.

Hopefully there is nothing in his contract that makes money guaranteed by winning probowl "honors"

It's the pro bowl.....who gives a shit how anyone did. Just glad nobody gut hurt!

 

[inkfreq]

My ONLY take away from the Pro-Bowl....

No blitzes allowed. No blitzing gave all the QBs time to throw. Took the pressure right off them.

Now, I know people will argue the ProBowl is a joke, but every player played in that same joke. They played the same guys, the same rules, the same way.

And Stafford came out of it with 316 yards and 2 TDs to win the offensive MVP award. Meaningless. Absolutely nothing.

Except he played better than Brees, Ryan, etc... because he had the time to throw and find open targets.

It's a meaningless game, but it does give an opportunity to see what he can do when has has time to work. Same may be true of every NFL QB, if they don't have time to throw, they don't throw well, with very few exceptions. I think the Lions have got to look at that game and realize they need to improve the offensive line immediately, not after drafting another TE and WR.

 

[tomdalton22]

My ONLY take away from the Pro-Bowl....

No blitzes allowed. No blitzing gave all the QBs time to throw. Took the pressure right off them.

Now, I know people will argue the ProBowl is a joke, but every player played in that same joke. They played the same guys, the same rules, the same way.

And Stafford came out of it with 316 yards and 2 TDs to win the offensive MVP award. Meaningless. Absolutely nothing.

Except he played better than Brees, Ryan, etc... because he had the time to throw and find open targets.

It's a meaningless game, but it does give an opportunity to see what he can do when has has time to work. Same may be true of every NFL QB, if they don't have time to throw, they don't throw well, with very few exceptions. I think the Lions have got to look at that game and realize they need to improve the offensive line immediately, not after drafting another TE and WR.

Almost every QB is good when they have all day to throw. The great ones are good under pressure

 

[inkfreq]

Almost every QB is good when they have all day to throw. The great ones are good under pressure

I'm pretty sure that's what I said in most ways.

I would argue Rodgers can throw like a best under pressure. Given the way the guy can run and throw, I'd almost rather NOT pressure him, he seems better.

Luck, he can throw under extreme pressure.

Manning explodes out from under center, and can't throw under pressure. He wants plenty of space between him and a defense.

Brady... take away the pocket, and he's Ryan Leaf Part II.

Brees, take away the pocket, and he can't even see down field.

I could go on and on, but really, short of two QBs out there, I think everyone else needs time to find the field. Which means O-Line has got to be the priority in the draft.

We've seen what Stafford can do with time to work, not just in the ProBowl, but in other seasons in which his line didn't try to get him killed. This team won't get over the hurdle with a jigsaw puzzle O-line and a revolving door at RT.

 

[Mitchrapp]

All that game does is it gets people to say "see, he can be good, he has the potential."

1 good season, 3 average season and 2 injured seasons. That is his legacy so far. There is no hurdle to get over. Anyone can do it once..you just don't become good after a mostly sub-par career in your 7th year. People always though Mitchell was a joke yet Matt gets praise I don't get it. And they always blame the oline/TE's (no offense Ink). But the year before the oline played well and the TE position wasn't as bad..

I would change your last statement to this "This team won't get over the hurdle with a inept and inconsistent QB."

 

[LKP]

I'm pretty sure that's what I said in most ways.

I would argue Rodgers can throw like a best under pressure. Given the way the guy can run and throw, I'd almost rather NOT pressure him, he seems better.

Luck, he can throw under extreme pressure.

Manning explodes out from under center, and can't throw under pressure. He wants plenty of space between him and a defense.

Brady... take away the pocket, and he's Ryan Leaf Part II.

Brees, take away the pocket, and he can't even see down field.

I could go on and on, but really, short of two QBs out there, I think everyone else needs time to find the field. Which means O-Line has got to be the priority in the draft.

We've seen what Stafford can do with time to work, not just in the ProBowl, but in other seasons in which his line didn't try to get him killed. This team won't get over the hurdle with a jigsaw puzzle O-line and a revolving door at RT.

Rodgers was 45% completion under pressure in 153 dropbacks under pressure. Stafford 40% in 212 dropbacks under pressure. That's a difference of 8 more incompletes for the 5% of 153. Stafford is on par with Rodgers under pressure.

Rodgers had better protection on 70 more drop backs. No wonder he looks better.

Lions Oline needs health at RT, new left guard and Swanson will be better.

 

[inkfreq]

All that game does is it gets people to say "see, he can be good, he has the potential."

1 good season, 3 average season and 2 injured seasons. That is his legacy so far. There is no hurdle to get over. Anyone can do it once..you just don't become good after a mostly sub-par career in your 7th year. People always though Mitchell was a joke yet Matt gets praise I don't get it. And they always blame the oline/TE's (no offense Ink). But the year before the oline played well and the TE position wasn't as bad..

I would change your last statement to this "This team won't get over the hurdle with a inept and inconsistent QB."

It really amazes me that someone can say something as blatantly obvious as "we need to improve the O-line" and someone else will find a way to try and argue.

If someone said "the sky is blue" to you these days Mitch, your answer would be "And it's because Stafford sucks!"

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

How much responsibility does a QB hold in regards to a team's offense? That is, if you tried to split it all up, how much responsibility should each party hold?

QB-RB-WRs-TEs-O-line-Coach. Which of those five should take the most praise when an offense succeeds, and which should take the most blame when an offense fails? Now obviously you can break some of those down, and it won't always be equal depending on the players themselves. A true superstar at one position is likely a greater reason for success than units as a whole. Similarly a train wreck of a player can be more responsible for failure than the rest of a position group.

Is Matthew Stafford a highly influential part of our offense? If we say yes, then he has to shoulder a proportionate amount of blame for the lackluster performance of that offense. If we say no, then why are we investing so much money in him? If we say that his performance is predicated heavily on O-line, WRs, TEs, and RBs, then it implies his individual influence is minimal.

 

[LKP]

How much responsibility does a QB hold in regards to a team's offense? That is, if you tried to split it all up, how much responsibility should each party hold?

QB-RB-WRs-TEs-O-line-Coach. Which of those five should take the most praise when an offense succeeds, and which should take the most blame when an offense fails? Now obviously you can break some of those down, and it won't always be equal depending on the players themselves. A true superstar at one position is likely a greater reason for success than units as a whole. Similarly a train wreck of a player can be more responsible for failure than the rest of a position group.

Is Matthew Stafford a highly influential part of our offense? If we say yes, then he has to shoulder a proportionate amount of blame for the lackluster performance of that offense. If we say no, then why are we investing so much money in him? If we say that his performance is predicated heavily on O-line, WRs, TEs, and RBs, then it implies his individual influence is minimal.

He's important but he relies on protection. 212 dropbacks under pressure including 45 sacks.

Run game very important too.

You have both those things combined go wrong, you could see why production is down even though Stafford is doing his job. The defense did a great job and gave us a chance. Stafford took the chance and won 11 games.

I'd say if you have 2 of those 3 things, then it's more on the QB. But Stafford only had 1 of 3.

Rodgers had run game and proteciton.
Wilson had run game and defense.
Romo had run game, protection and only 10 drops on the year.
Zona defense and protection.

Those are your 11 and 12 game winners in NFC.

Stafford just had defense. He got the wins with less help.

 

[dubbsco]

Rodgers also threw for 17/22, 226, 2 tds and 0 picks on one leg against Detroit. He's a real quarterback.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

He's important but he relies on protection. 212 dropbacks under pressure including 45 sacks.

Run game very important too.

You have both those things combined go wrong, you could see why production is down even though Stafford is doing his job. The defense did a great job and gave us a chance. Stafford took the chance and won 11 games.

I'd say if you have 2 of those 3 things, then it's more on the QB. But Stafford only had 1 of 3.

Rodgers had run game and proteciton.
Wilson had run game and defense.
Romo had run game, protection and only 10 drops on the year.
Zona defense and protection.

Those are your 11 and 12 game winners in NFC.

Stafford just had defense. He got the wins with less help.

Rodgers and Romo had significantly better years than Stafford, so that's not really a comparison. Zona won the same number of games as Detroit despite having a lesser defense and playing backup QBs more than half of their snaps. Wilson is actually a decent comparison this year - both had shaky O-lines, Detroit had WRs while Seattle had a running game, both had elite defenses backing them up, but had mediocre seasons. That, of course, also ignores that Wilson himself provides significant value as a runner which Stafford does not.

This seems to prove little, unfortunately. Half the teams you named won more often in spite of their passing game. The other half had MVP-caliber QB play bolstering below average defenses. Based on the comparisons you've made, Stafford appears to have ridden the coattails of an elite defense - which is the common denominator among teams without elite passing offenses.

 

[everyoneneedsasmil]

If we expand the comparison to the AFC 11+ game winners, we see similar results.

NE had an elite offense and above average defense (MVP level QB play)
Pit had an elite offense and terrible defense (MVP level QB play)
Indy had an elite offense and above average defense (MVP level QB play)
Denver had an elite offense and elite defense (MVP level QB play for half the year).

Does this tells us anything new? Pit was roughly the inverse of Arizona. Denver in the second half was most similar to Detroit. NE was most similar to Seattle being good on both sides of the ball. Indy only lost to NE. All this seems to say is that an elite defense OR elite offense is sufficient to win 11 games. Teams with both tend to progress further in the playoffs than those with only one.

Elite QBs are more common on teams with high win totals, but not a prerequisite to that success.

 

[LKP]

Rodgers also threw for 17/22, 226, 2 tds and 0 picks on one leg against Detroit. He's a real quarterback.

Rodgers is 3-10 in the last 3 years on the road against .500 teams.

Stafford had 3 Tds and 0 ints in that same game too.

 

[LKP]

Rodgers and Romo had significantly better years than Stafford, so that's not really a comparison. Zona won the same number of games as Detroit despite having a lesser defense and playing backup QBs more than half of their snaps. Wilson is actually a decent comparison this year - both had shaky O-lines, Detroit had WRs while Seattle had a running game, both had elite defenses backing them up, but had mediocre seasons. That, of course, also ignores that Wilson himself provides significant value as a runner which Stafford does not.

This seems to prove little, unfortunately. Half the teams you named won more often in spite of their passing game. The other half had MVP-caliber QB play bolstering below average defenses. Based on the comparisons you've made, Stafford appears to have ridden the coattails of an elite defense - which is the common denominator among teams without elite passing offenses.

The elite QBs had running games and protection. More support than Stafford bottomline.

Wilson struggled alot, but had the defense and run game for wins.

Stafford won with just one of those three things. Impossible to be elite when you have no protection AND no run game. Stafford did well considering the circumstances.

Cardinals defense is still very good and their QBs had protection. But they had the injury. Defense and protection and you can still win too despite offensive struggles.

 

[dubbsco]

And STILL managed an 89 rating because he is so freaking inaccurate. How sad is that? Throws 3 tds to 0 picks, and it's completely misleading because he had a HORRIBLE game.

Aaron Rodgers also has a Super Bowl, the best TD/INT ratio in the history of the game. Stafford can't sniff his socks.