Stafford gone to rams

[LKP]

The haters are gonna say he would be worse
The Stafford supporters will say he would have done better

The bar was high. Goff won a ton of games. You guys seem to give QBs the credit for wins and losses for Stafford so let's just go ahead and said Goff went 43-11. 43-11 is not right by the way.

If they are interachangeable in your eyes, then we got a really good younger QB who went 43-11. Plus two 1sts and 3rd. But what were the years 11-5, 13-3, 9-7, 10-6 last 4 for rams. Goff is 43-22 not 43-11. 43-11 is ridiculous. Goff is the 2nd most winning QB though in that time frame. It wasn't just the defense and run game. Goff had to make throws and he did especially 2017 2018. Two 100 QB ratings. That's huge. And again, you guys when bashing Stafford would consider that an individual stat and not a team stat. Were those 100 QB ratings all Goff then? What else happened to Goff, Oline worse, Cooks gone and run game worse in 2019 at least. So that was a big change for him.

And Goff doesn't always have to play the same every year. 2019, 2020 could be down years. Could he look like 2018 again, yes its possible is the answer. Coaching and scheme and just his flat out development can make him better or worse. Stafford had a transformation from 2014 and on. He was a worse QB in 2012/2013 and someone (Caldwell and Cooter) fixed his mechanic and turnover problems. Mid 2015-2020 Stafford was really good for the most part.

Someone can "fix" Goff too. Can Lynn and Brunell do that. Let's find out. Anybody that says they know for certain they can or can't is an idiot. We have no clue what this staff will do. The fact that is it's different coaching seems like an improvement but they have to prove they can coach in Detroit.

And I'm sure Cephus and Allison won't be our number 1 and 2 WR going into the season. It's pre free agency. RELAX

 

[zyxt9]

LKP, solid post from beginning to end. The last line is especially accurate...relax and let's see where these new guys take the team.

 

[tomdalton22]

The bar was high. Goff won a ton of games. You guys seem to give QBs the credit for wins and losses for Stafford so let's just go ahead and said Goff went 43-11. 43-11 is not right by the way.

43-11 is right. 11 of his losses weren't losses because the refs, wind, and extreme injuries. :cheers:

 

[LKP]

43-11 is right. 11 of his losses weren't losses because the refs, wind, and extreme injuries. :cheers:

Well then with that 43-11 QB we got the best deal ever in a trade

Let's put up a Brad Holmes statue outside of Ford Field to forever remember this trade

 

[zyxt9]

Actually the math was a touch off...43-21 not 43-22. So it would appear whomever initially stated the 43-11 error hit the 1 instead of 2 on their keyboard when entering the info, and then the 43-22 was either a slight miscalculation or accidentally hit the 2 instead of the 1. Regardless, 43-21 is the correct record. 43+21=64 16*4=64. All squared away now, unless the individual season records were not correct.

Winning every 2 out of 3 games is pretty solid IMO...and that is the average. Compare that to 74-90-1 for Stafford. Goff having a bad year lead to a 9-7 record. Stafford only did better than that twice and tied it twice in 12 years.

 

[boogerlovejoy]

Actually the math was a touch off...43-21 not 43-22. So it would appear whomever initially stated the 43-11 error hit the 1 instead of 2 on their keyboard when entering the info, and then the 43-22 was either a slight miscalculation or accidentally hit the 2 instead of the 1. Regardless, 43-21 is the correct record. 43+21=64 16*4=64. All squared away now, unless the individual season records were not correct.

Winning every 2 out of 3 games is pretty solid IMO...and that is the average. Compare that to 74-90-1 for Stafford. Goff having a bad year lead to a 9-7 record. Stafford only did better than that twice and tied it twice in 12 years.

So......are you saying a teams record is a direct reflection of the QB and has nothing to do with the other 45 guys around him?

 

[LKP]

Actually the math was a touch off...43-21 not 43-22. So it would appear whomever initially stated the 43-11 error hit the 1 instead of 2 on their keyboard when entering the info, and then the 43-22 was either a slight miscalculation or accidentally hit the 2 instead of the 1. Regardless, 43-21 is the correct record. 43+21=64 16*4=64. All squared away now, unless the individual season records were not correct.

Winning every 2 out of 3 games is pretty solid IMO...and that is the average. Compare that to 74-90-1 for Stafford. Goff having a bad year lead to a 9-7 record. Stafford only did better than that twice and tied it twice in 12 years.

It just shows how much a team support it is to get wins. Especially if you consider Stafford a better QB than Goff. Like would Goff go 43-21 with the Lions in the last 4 years and 3-3 in playoffs. Hell no. Would Rodgers/Maholmes, some think so I'm in the no camp on that as the Lions just don't support QBs well other than some weapons. Stafford could be 43-21 if he was a Ram 2017-2020 but we will never know.

We'll find out in the next 2 years what Stafford can do with the Rams. And if Stafford or the Rams in general fail (Oline regresses, defense regresses and run game regresses or mix and match of a few even if Stafford plays well), then we get much better picks.

Goff will probably struggle unless the Lions can fix the entire team. Even the good weapons are gone at WR now and need to be addressed.

 

[mhughes0021]

It just shows how much a team support it is to get wins. Especially if you consider Stafford a better QB than Goff. Like would Goff go 43-21 with the Lions in the last 4 years and 3-3 in playoffs. Hell no. Would Rodgers/Maholmes, some think so I'm in the no camp on that as the Lions just don't support QBs well other than some weapons. Stafford could be 43-21 if he was a Ram 2017-2020 but we will never know.

We'll find out in the next 2 years what Stafford can do with the Rams. And if Stafford or the Rams in general fail (Oline regresses, defense regresses and run game regresses or mix and match of a few even if Stafford plays well), then we get much better picks.

Goff will probably struggle unless the Lions can fix the entire team. Even the good weapons are gone at WR now and need to be addressed.

So youre saying having an average QB making $25 mil a year makes no sense because if you get an average QB making $5mil a year then you can use that extra $20 mil to build your team since team support is more important.

Glad youre finally comming around...we've been telling you this the last 6 years with Stafford and now we get to tell you again the next 3 years when Goff wins 11 games and we start another rebuild.

 

[zyxt9]

So......are you saying a teams record is a direct reflection of the QB and has nothing to do with the other 45 guys around him?

Really?

Like it or not, the 2 individuals in football who are assigned historical W-L are the Head Coach and the QB.

You tell me why. I think you have followed football long enough to answer this on your own like the big boy I believe you to be.

 

[zyxt9]

It just shows how much a team support it is to get wins. Especially if you consider Stafford a better QB than Goff. Like would Goff go 43-21 with the Lions in the last 4 years and 3-3 in playoffs. Hell no. Would Rodgers/Maholmes, some think so I'm in the no camp on that as the Lions just don't support QBs well other than some weapons. Stafford could be 43-21 if he was a Ram 2017-2020 but we will never know.

We'll find out in the next 2 years what Stafford can do with the Rams. And if Stafford or the Rams in general fail (Oline regresses, defense regresses and run game regresses or mix and match of a few even if Stafford plays well), then we get much better picks.

Goff will probably struggle unless the Lions can fix the entire team. Even the good weapons are gone at WR now and need to be addressed.

I firmly believe Lions will win more games in 2021 than they did in 2020. Chalk it up to improved running game, defense, better WRs or whatever...maybe Goff will just benefit from better luck.

vs Atl - W
vs Bears - W and W
vs Browns - L
vs Pack - L and L
vs Vikes - W and W
vs Az - W
vs SF - W
vs Balt - L
vs Cincy - W
vs Philly - W
vs Rams - L
vs Pitt - W
vs Sea - W

11-5 is my projected best case scenario
8-8 is my projected worst case scenario

Add a WR in FA and another in Draft, Add 3 players on D via FA and 4 in Draft

Things are not as horrible as everyone thinks. The 2021 defense will look very different. Defense will give up under 400 pts instead of over 500 with worst games vs Pack and Rams. Offense scores over 400 instead of below 400 with worst games vs Browns, Ravens, and Steelers.

I'm sure most are laughing, this is no less an unrealistic post than saying they will go 0-16 or 1-15, giving up over 500 and scoring under 300. That is not realistic IMO, but we still have the FA and Draft to go through so everyone's views will likely change after those things happen.

 

[zyxt9]

So youre saying having an average QB making $25 mil a year makes no sense because if you get an average QB making $5mil a year then you can use that extra $20 mil to build your team since team support is more important.

Glad youre finally comming around...we've been telling you this the last 6 years with Stafford and now we get to tell you again the next 3 years when Goff wins 11 games and we start another rebuild.

I distinctly remember being concerned about cap issues back when Stafford and Suh were consuming a huge percentage of the Cap. Know what? They ended up being fine and put together some pretty good teams.

Do not underestimate GMs working the cap and putting a solid team on the field. There are many methods that have been proven effective, and they will do it again. The cap is a minor issue.

 

[tomdalton22]

I firmly believe Lions will win more games in 2021 than they did in 2020. Chalk it up to improved running game, defense, better WRs or whatever...maybe Goff will just benefit from better luck.

vs Atl - W
vs Bears - W and W
vs Browns - L
vs Pack - L and L
vs Vikes - W and W
vs Az - W
vs SF - W
vs Balt - L
vs Cincy - W
vs Philly - W
vs Rams - L
vs Pitt - W
vs Sea - W

11-5 is my projected best case scenario
8-8 is my projected worst case scenario

Add a WR in FA and another in Draft, Add 3 players on D via FA and 4 in Draft

Things are not as horrible as everyone thinks. The 2021 defense will look very different. Defense will give up under 400 pts instead of over 500 with worst games vs Pack and Rams. Offense scores over 400 instead of below 400 with worst games vs Browns, Ravens, and Steelers.

I'm sure most are laughing, this is no less an unrealistic post than saying they will go 0-16 or 1-15, giving up over 500 and scoring under 300. That is not realistic IMO, but we still have the FA and Draft to go through so everyone's views will likely change after those things happen.

Again, I think LKP hacked your account. You have to remember, they have virtually no cap room. Even after they cut a bunch of dead weight, the Lions are not a free agent destination. They will get mediocre players.

vs Atl - L
vs Bears - L and W
vs Browns - L
vs Pack - L and L
vs Vikes - L and W
vs Az - L
vs SF - L
vs Balt - L
vs Cincy - L
vs Philly - L
vs Rams - L
vs Pitt - L
vs Sea - L

This is realistic. They could win a few more...possibly Cincy, Philly or AZ depending on where it is. ATL is another possibility. So that's 5 or 6 wins. Really, I think 5-6 wins is probably the max next year. 8 would be a shock. 11 is out of the question.

 

[byco42]

Really?

Like it or not, the 2 individuals in football who are assigned historical W-L are the Head Coach and the QB.

You tell me why. I think you have followed football long enough to answer this on your own like the big boy I believe you to be.

It?s a good metric to demonstrate that there?s more to the story. In other words, it?s about as useful as a pitcher?s W-L record.

I mean ... Dilfer? Elway? Brad Johnson? Peyton? They got the win in their SBs?

 

[detrisin]

Again, I think LKP hacked your account. You have to remember, they have virtually no cap room. Even after they cut a bunch of dead weight, the Lions are not a free agent destination. They will get mediocre players.

vs Atl - L
vs Bears - L and W
vs Browns - L
vs Pack - L and L
vs Vikes - L and W
vs Az - L
vs SF - L
vs Balt - L
vs Cincy - L
vs Philly - L
vs Rams - L
vs Pitt - L
vs Sea - L

This is realistic. They could win a few more...possibly Cincy, Philly or AZ depending on where it is. ATL is another possibility. So that's 5 or 6 wins. Really, I think 5-6 wins is probably the max next year. 8 would be a shock. 11 is out of the question.

I think he and Loser Keeps Posting are drinking from the same water source.

 

[LKP]

So youre saying having an average QB making $25 mil a year makes no sense because if you get an average QB making $5mil a year then you can use that extra $20 mil to build your team since team support is more important.

Glad youre finally comming around...we've been telling you this the last 6 years with Stafford and now we get to tell you again the next 3 years when Goff wins 11 games and we start another rebuild.

LOL cap space wasn't the issue.
Also
Stafford isn't average. He is very good. Lions were just that bad for various reasons some seasons not 2011, 2014, 2016, 2017 for sure. I'm saying no matter the QB, even HOF QB if the rest of team stinks you won't win much. It wasn't lacking cap space, its picking players that didn't work out for various reasons (talent, coaching, scheme fit or injuries)

Rookie QB is a bigger risk. Because if he sucks, then you wasted an opportunity to build. Goff is a nice additions because we could potentially use all of 5 of those 1st rounders to build the team. At least one 4 if Goff sucks

Also let's say we got pick 8 and 3rd rounder for Stafford. You use pick 8 (or pick 7) on a QB so you had no additional capital to build the team other than the 3rd rounder. In the Holmes trade, we can use two extra 1st rounders to build the team, or at least one. In the Carolina trade, we basically just swapping Stafford for a rookie QB and build through free agency. Building through free agency is stupid. Holmes decided to build through the draft and Goff could be the answer at QB TBD. Also Lions can create plenty of cap space through cuts of people we WANT TO CUT. 30 million in space. Don't worry about cap space lol. We shouldn't be adding a bunch of 2021 free agents anyway. Not until we are more built up elsewhere. But we can add some if we want once they cut the dead weight (Trufant, Williams, Coleman, Dahl, Daniel etc)

 

[LKP]

Lions are going like 2-14 or 3-13 this year. It's going to take time. You guys said you didnt' care about 2021 as long as they built the team properly. Now some are changing their tune and want to win in 2021 LOL

 

[mhughes0021]

LOL cap space wasn't the issue.
Also
Stafford isn't average. He is very good. Lions were just that bad for various reasons some seasons not 2011, 2014, 2016, 2017 for sure. I'm saying no matter the QB, even HOF QB if the rest of team stinks you won't win much. It wasn't lacking cap space, its picking players that didn't work out for various reasons (talent, coaching, scheme fit or injuries)

Rookie QB is a bigger risk. Because if he sucks, then you wasted an opportunity to build. Goff is a nice additions because we could potentially use all of 5 of those 1st rounders to build the team. At least one 4 if Goff sucks

Also let's say we got pick 8 and 3rd rounder for Stafford. You use pick 8 (or pick 7) on a QB so you had no additional capital to build the team other than the 3rd rounder. In the Holmes trade, we can use two extra 1st rounders to build the team, or at least one. In the Carolina trade, we basically just swapping Stafford for a rookie QB and build through free agency. Building through free agency is stupid. Holmes decided to build through the draft and Goff could be the answer at QB TBD. Also Lions can create plenty of cap space through cuts of people we WANT TO CUT. 30 million in space. Don't worry about cap space lol. We shouldn't be adding a bunch of 2021 free agents anyway. Not until we are more built up elsewhere. But we can add some if we want once they cut the dead weight (Trufant, Williams, Coleman, Dahl, Daniel etc)

Nope....various reasons is team support. Its the same thing. And we agree with you. Build up the rest of the team and let your average QB shine!

Theres 2 GREAT/ELITE QBs in this league...Mahomes and Rodgers. Everyone else can win if you put pieces around them. Theres no reason why Hebert on the Rams would be any different than Stafford on the rams as far as wins/losses goes. They can both do the same things and id argue Hebert is better at creating if the pocket breaks down.

 

[LKP]

Nope....various reasons is team support. Its the same thing. And we agree with you. Build up the rest of the team and let your average QB shine!

Theres 2 GREAT/ELITE QBs in this league...Mahomes and Rodgers. Everyone else can win if you put pieces around them. Theres no reason why Hebert on the Rams would be any different than Stafford on the rams as far as wins/losses goes. They can both do the same things and id argue Hebert is better at creating if the pocket breaks down.

Stafford is good. Maholmes and Rodgers would not have success without a team. Heck look at Rodgers struggles in 2017/2018. Packers had issues and they didn't win

The trade they made is the best way to get the most draft capital to build the team. You build through the draft hughes, not free agency. And cap space is not a problem for the Lions. 11 over can be way under the cap really quickly with cuts. And that is at 175. Cap could be 180 (6 over) or 198 (12 under). It is TBD.

I know you want to franchise Golladay. They can tag and trade before March 17 when cap is a factor. They can tag and resign too which then his cap hit would be much lower than 17 milllion. You bitched about KG injury all year and now all of sudden you don't want to lose him lol. Lions have options with Golladay. He seems to like the new regime based on his latest interview on NFL Net

 

[mhughes0021]

LOL cap space wasn't the issue.
Also
Stafford isn't average. He is very good. Lions were just that bad for various reasons some seasons not 2011, 2014, 2016, 2017 for sure. I'm saying no matter the QB, even HOF QB if the rest of team stinks you won't win much. It wasn't lacking cap space, its picking players that didn't work out for various reasons (talent, coaching, scheme fit or injuries)

Rookie QB is a bigger risk. Because if he sucks, then you wasted an opportunity to build. Goff is a nice additions because we could potentially use all of 5 of those 1st rounders to build the team. At least one 4 if Goff sucks

Also let's say we got pick 8 and 3rd rounder for Stafford. You use pick 8 (or pick 7) on a QB so you had no additional capital to build the team other than the 3rd rounder. In the Holmes trade, we can use two extra 1st rounders to build the team, or at least one. In the Carolina trade, we basically just swapping Stafford for a rookie QB and build through free agency. Building through free agency is stupid. Holmes decided to build through the draft and Goff could be the answer at QB TBD. Also Lions can create plenty of cap space through cuts of people we WANT TO CUT. 30 million in space. Don't worry about cap space lol. We shouldn't be adding a bunch of 2021 free agents anyway. Not until we are more built up elsewhere. But we can add some if we want once they cut the dead weight (Trufant, Williams, Coleman, Dahl, Daniel etc)

1st and 3rd this year imo is better.

Get a rookie QB contract
You can realistically trade down from 8 if you wanted to which means youd have 2 1sts, 2 2nds and 2 3rds this year.
Youd have 25 mil more in cap space

And if you listen to people like Rex Ryan...who i understand is a complete jackass but he understands the locker rooms. people go to your team because of the QB...not the coaches. No one is comming here because of Jared Goff. So were back to having to over pay FAs in order to get them here....which we all can agree were not interested in when were trying to rebuild. So in that scenerio you need draft picks now...now 2 years from now.

 

[mhughes0021]

Stafford is good. Maholmes and Rodgers would not have success without a team. Heck look at Rodgers struggles in 2017/2018. Packers had issues and they didn't win

The trade they made is the best way to get the most draft capital to build the team. You build through the draft hughes, not free agency. And cap space is not a problem for the Lions. 11 over can be way under the cap really quickly with cuts. And that is at 175. Cap could be 180 (6 over) or 198 (12 under). It is TBD.

I know you want to franchise Golladay. They can tag and trade before March 17 when cap is a factor. They can tag and resign too which then his cap hit would be much lower than 17 milllion. You bitched about KG injury all year and now all of sudden you don't want to lose him lol. Lions have options with Golladay. He seems to like the new regime based on his latest interview on NFL Net

agreed...and we dont have any draft picks lol. Again, our GM put our rebuild on hold. Not sure how you dont understand that.