Stafford Tops Sporting News' Overrated QB List

[LKP]

Yeah, okay :nuts:

Tons of first downs, TD/FG drives and TDs.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Tons of first downs, TD/FG drives and TDs.

That's pretty good for one of the worst offensive teams in the league :nod:

 

[LKP]

That's pretty good for one of the worst offensive teams in the league :nod:

Injured Oline (Warford/Waddle/Reiff/Hilliard), run game ineffective especially first half of seasson, Raiola/Sims regression, drops, Calvin hurt 5 games. It wasn't Stafford.

 

[grandy]

I won't ignore any unfortunate circumstances which may have a negative impact on Stafford's stats. However if this is used as a justification for any bump in ranking it's only fair to use the same method for every single QB in the league, otherwise one would have no clue how the comparison was actually made.

The most obvious factors impacting QB success (with some being broad)
- QB ability
- Offensive scheme (including blocking scheme(s))
- Individual and collective o-line ability
- Run game effectiveness
- Receiver ability
- Play calling decisions/game plan
- Play call execution/coordination
- Opposing defensive scheme
- Opposing defensive ability
- Personnel decisions (injuries, substitutions, etc.)
- Starting field position
- Weather
- Intelligence and experience factors
- Time
- Score
- Effort
- Health
- Dumb luck (hesitant to say this, but the bounce of the ball basically)

It would be nearly impossible to quantify each of these and definitively rank QBs based on it. Stats are the next best thing, but neither one nor even a grouping of stats can ever tell the whole story.

Basically what I'm saying is that if Stafford is top 5, I'd like a detailed explanation as to why his stats coupled with situation/circumstance puts him above or below other QBs based on states and situation/circumstances. I don't like seeing just one side of the story.

 

[SpartyNash]

25th is pretty low.

I think Stafford is under contract for 3 more years so here are the QBs that I would take over Stafford over the next 3 years. This is based on past performance and what I think these players will do in the near future.

Brees
Ben
Luck
Ryan
Rodgers
Rivers
Brady
Tannehill
Flacco
Romo
Wilson
P Manning (very close given his age)

So I have 11 or 12 ahead of Stafford but there are guys that are pretty similar to him (Dalton, Newton, Kaepernick, Bridgewater) that push him down to that mid teen level of QB.

Like most of us say...slightly above average or average.

I would take Newton over him, Kaepernick would be push, so yes, I am standing by my statement of taking him around 15th (14/15 in this case).

 

[LKP]

I won't ignore any unfortunate circumstances which may have a negative impact on Stafford's stats. However if this is used as a justification for any bump in ranking it's only fair to use the same method for every single QB in the league, otherwise one would have no clue how the comparison was actually made.

The most obvious factors impacting QB success (with some being broad)
- QB ability
- Offensive scheme (including blocking scheme(s))
- Individual and collective o-line ability
- Run game effectiveness
- Receiver ability
- Play calling decisions/game plan
- Play call execution/coordination
- Opposing defensive scheme
- Opposing defensive ability
- Personnel decisions (injuries, substitutions, etc.)
- Starting field position
- Weather
- Intelligence and experience factors
- Time
- Score
- Effort
- Health
- Dumb luck (hesitant to say this, but the bounce of the ball basically)

It would be nearly impossible to quantify each of these and definitively rank QBs based on it. Stats are the next best thing, but neither one nor even a grouping of stats can ever tell the whole story.

Basically what I'm saying is that if Stafford is top 5, I'd like a detailed explanation as to why his stats coupled with situation/circumstance puts him above or below other QBs based on states and situation/circumstances. I don't like seeing just one side of the story.

He produces despite sacks, hits, hurries, fumbles lost by weapons, ints caused by weapons, drops, run game support and turnover support that is more to deal with than any other QB. He's a winner. He's extremely cerebral in reading defenses. Best combo of arm and head in the game and still improving.


Lions move the ball well despite all these issues and Stafford gives us a chance to win. He overcomes them. He's got a great skillset. When everything went close to perfect, he put up monster numbers (2011). He still did very good things in 2013 and 2014 despite battling so many problems (problems resulting from injuries to others and good weapon players having a flaw (drops, cause a pick on one play or more). When he got a little defensive help finally (stayed healthy in secondary finally), he's an 11 game winner and was the reason our offense did anything good.

We all should be very glad we get to witness the career of Stafford.

 

[Mitchrapp]

He produces despite sacks, hits, hurries, fumbles lost by weapons, ints caused by weapons, drops, run game support and turnover support that is more to deal with than any other QB. He's a winner. He's extremely cerebral in reading defenses. Best combo of arm and head in the game and still improving.


Lions move the ball well despite all these issues and Stafford gives us a chance to win. He overcomes them. He's got a great skillset. When everything went close to perfect, he put up monster numbers (2011). He still did very good things in 2013 and 2014 despite battling so many problems (problems resulting from injuries to others and good weapon players having a flaw (drops, cause a pick on one play or more). When he got a little defensive help finally (stayed healthy in secondary finally), he's an 11 game winner and was the reason our offense did anything good.

We all should be very glad we get to witness the career of Stafford.

 

[tomdalton22]

He produces despite sacks, hits, hurries, fumbles lost by weapons, ints caused by weapons, drops, run game support and turnover support that is more to deal with than any other QB. He's a winner. He's extremely cerebral in reading defenses. Best combo of arm and head in the game and still improving.


Lions move the ball well despite all these issues and Stafford gives us a chance to win. He overcomes them. He's got a great skillset. When everything went close to perfect, he put up monster numbers (2011). He still did very good things in 2013 and 2014 despite battling so many problems (problems resulting from injuries to others and good weapon players having a flaw (drops, cause a pick on one play or more). When he got a little defensive help finally (stayed healthy in secondary finally), he's an 11 game winner and was the reason our offense did anything good.

We all should be very glad we get to witness the career of Stafford.

what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.

 

[Mitchrapp]

what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it.

Lol. Classic quote..

 

[brewer229]

The numbers do lie. The numbers extremely lie. The game tape doesn't lie.

ints not his fault, drops and protection, skew his numbers.

Gather around kids, LKP is going to teach us about game tape. Yes the guy who claimed a WR was jammed on a play that the DB was lined up 12 yards off of on the snap. A play where the DB didn't even touch him until the WR had to adjust to a extremely under thrown ball. A play where LKP would rather hope for a PI call instead of taking the easy walk in TD.

Also a guy who refers to a game tape more than anyone, but yet has never posted anything or has never correctly broken down a play that has been posted here. A guy who charts all throws, but has never shared these mysterious charts. A guy who used a stat one year to prove why someone is good, but next year says that same very stat is irrelevant and shouldn't be used. A guy that falls back on record when he hs nothing, but insist record means nothing for a QB every prior year.

Oh LKP, what wild ass crazy idea are you going to post this time.

 

[LKP]

Gather around kids, LKP is going to teach us about game tape. Yes the guy who claimed a WR was jammed on a play that the DB was lined up 12 yards off of on the snap. A play where the DB didn't even touch him until the WR had to adjust to a extremely under thrown ball. A play where LKP would rather hope for a PI call instead of taking the easy walk in TD.

Also a guy who refers to a game tape more than anyone, but yet has never posted anything or has never correctly broken down a play that has been posted here. A guy who charts all throws, but has never shared these mysterious charts. A guy who used a stat one year to prove why someone is good, but next year says that same very stat is irrelevant and shouldn't be used. A guy that falls back on record when he hs nothing, but insist record means nothing for a QB every prior year.

Oh LKP, what wild ass crazy idea are you going to post this time.

I never said he was jammed on that play. Pay attention. I said Fuller has gotten jammed most of the year. It affects the deep ball and where you would throw it. Height was also a factor in that play.

 

[LKP]

14/20 of top rated QBs had 4 YPC or higher rush support. Stafford 3.6. Tied worst with Eli and Rivers. No run support.

13/20 top rated sacked 33 or less times. Stafford 45. Only Tannehill sacked more. No protection.

13/20 got 25+ turnovers. Stafford 27. Hey we got one.

Stafford does more with less. Injuries galore to weapons this year. Calvin (5), Bush (most of season), Ebron, Oline all over the place, Fauria (most of season). Using Ross as our 3rd WR.

Stafford is an elite QB despite what his stats say.

Stafford makes play after play despite longer down and distance and no protection. Game tape doesn't lie.

11/20 have more than 570 attempts. Stafford 602 is in that boat.

 

[brewer229]

My only explanation is he doesn't understand who is who. I made a cheat sheet.

 

[LKP]

Stafford 35 TDs and 12 ints this year. Ebron, protection, run game will be better. Top 5 offense in Detroit.

 

[LKP]

My only explanation is he doesn't understand who is who. I made a cheat sheet.

Rodgers had almost no weapon injuries, only sacked 28 times, had 4.4 YPC and his defense got him 27 turnovers. Rodgers was 3/3 with support due to no major injuries to his weapon and Oline.

Stafford can be just of good as Rodgers if he got that support. In fact, 2011 shows that. Burlson and Young are not as talented as Cobb and Adams though. And Lacy>hurt Best and Morris/Smith.

 

[mhughes0021]

I won't ignore any unfortunate circumstances which may have a negative impact on Stafford's stats. However if this is used as a justification for any bump in ranking it's only fair to use the same method for every single QB in the league, otherwise one would have no clue how the comparison was actually made.

The most obvious factors impacting QB success (with some being broad)
- QB ability
- Offensive scheme (including blocking scheme(s))
- Individual and collective o-line ability
- Run game effectiveness
- Receiver ability
- Play calling decisions/game plan
- Play call execution/coordination
- Opposing defensive scheme
- Opposing defensive ability
- Personnel decisions (injuries, substitutions, etc.)
- Starting field position
- Weather
- Intelligence and experience factors
- Time
- Score
- Effort
- Health
- Dumb luck (hesitant to say this, but the bounce of the ball basically)

It would be nearly impossible to quantify each of these and definitively rank QBs based on it. Stats are the next best thing, but neither one nor even a grouping of stats can ever tell the whole story.

Basically what I'm saying is that if Stafford is top 5, I'd like a detailed explanation as to why his stats coupled with situation/circumstance puts him above or below other QBs based on states and situation/circumstances. I don't like seeing just one side of the story.

Were always making excuses for him. ...and that's the point of the article. He's gotten a free pass for way to long. Hes a #1 overall pick that puts up kyle orton and ryan fitzpatrickesque numbers.

 

[brewer229]

Rodgers had almost no weapon injuries, only sacked 28 times, had 4.4 YPC and his defense got him 27 turnovers. Rodgers was 3/3 with support due to no major injuries to his weapon and Oline.

Stafford can be just of good as Rodgers if he got that support. In fact, 2011 shows that. Burlson and Young are not as talented as Cobb and Adams though. And Lacy>hurt Best and Morris/Smith.

So would you say Ted Thompson is a much better GM than Mayhew? At least at acquiring and judging offensive talent?

Just for fun, since Matt has come into the league:

Rodgers

1910/2880 66.32% completion, 197 TDs, 43 Ints, 109.0 Rating. Even taking only Matt's best year, he was still about 12 points worse than Rodgers in rating. But damnit, they have Randall Cobb. Maybe we should invest in second round WRs.........oh wait.

 

[grandy]

Were always making excuses for him. ...and that's the point of the article. He's gotten a free pass for way to long. Hes a #1 overall pick that puts up kyle orton and ryan fitzpatrickesque numbers.

And that's the whole point, there's so many factors that EVERY QB has to detail with. This "poor Stafford" attitude could be applied, to some degree, to every QB in the league. Aaron Rodgers could put up better numbers under perfect circumstances.

The stats aren't perfect (though advancements are being made) but I do believe they're useful tools for comparison most of the time. If, going forward, Stafford consistently puts up stats with likes of Orton and Fitzpatrick, that becomes a pretty good indication of what league Stafford is really in.

 

[Mitchrapp]

And that's the whole point, there's so many factors that EVERY QB has to detail with. This "poor Stafford" attitude could be applied, to some degree, to every QB in the league. Aaron Rodgers could put up better numbers under perfect circumstances.

The stats aren't perfect (though advancements are being made) but I do believe they're useful tools for comparison most of the time. If, going forward, Stafford consistently puts up stats with likes of Orton and Fitzpatrick, that becomes a pretty good indication of what league Stafford is really in.

If going forward?

I bet fans are those teams are saying "if Orton/Fitz consistently put up numbers like Stafford it's a pretty good indication of what league Orton/Fitz is really in."

 

[tigermud]

Stafford 35 TDs and 12 ints this year. Ebron, protection, run game will be better. Top 5 offense in Detroit.

Kool aid kook aid, taste great, wish I had some, can't wait