Suh Negotiations

[cheeno]

hes a beast no doubt....but I can find people with his stats that make 10s of millions of dollars less than him.

He's a top three DT I'd put him no. 1 but I'm a homer...I compare him to Ngata...both make similar dough and the Ravens are in the same boat with his high cap hit.

http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/8632/dont-count-on-an-extension-with-ngata

 

[lgolfer]

hes a beast no doubt....but I can find people with his stats that make 10s of millions of dollars less than him.

Who's fault is his salary though? He's still on his rookie contract, so are you saying the Lions should've picked someone else at #2? Here's the list of the top 10 picks of the 2010 draft:

1. Sam Bradford
2. Ndamukong Suh
3. Gerald McCoy
4. Trent Williams
5. Eric Berry
6. Russell Okung
7. Joe Haden
8. Rolando McLain
9. C.J. Spiller
10. Tyson Alualu

Out of those 10, I'd say that Suh is definitely the player that I'd give the most money to. McCoy is good, but not on Suh's level. Berry is a great safety, but I'd rather pay a DT big money than a safety. Ultimately it was the old rookie pay scale that killed us with Suh's deal.

If your argument is that he should make less than 12 million on his next contract, then that's a different debate. And it's one that I might agree with you. But complaining about how much Suh is making right now is stupid because there's nothing the Lions could've done about it. And just to be clear, his huge current cap hit is another argument about whether restructuring should've happened or not. But it has nothing to do with the amount of money he's being paid. The cap hit is just accounting.

 

[mhughes0021]

He's a top three DT I'd put him no. 1 but I'm a homer...I compare him to Ngata...both make similar dough and the Ravens are in the same boat with his high cap hit.

http://espn.go.com/blog/baltimore-ravens/post/_/id/8632/dont-count-on-an-extension-with-ngata

agree somewhat. Ngata's main focus schematically in a 3-4 is to eat space/blocks. Suhs main focus is to wreak havoc on the opposing qb. Yet Ngata actually out tackled suh last year...that's pretty sad. 5.5 sacks and 1 FF...you can say with a straight face we got what we paid for last year? If others stepped up and had monster years around him then id be more apt to say yes. The leading sack guy had a measily 8 sacks. Now you say it was due to lack of coverage....understandable argument. LKP says secondary is awesome and dline is awesome....don't know how that translates into suck. I say they both underachieved...and as of now the roster hasn't been upgraded in either the secondary or dline.

 

[mhughes0021]

Who's fault is his salary though? He's still on his rookie contract, so are you saying the Lions should've picked someone else at #2? Here's the list of the top 10 picks of the 2010 draft:

1. Sam Bradford
2. Ndamukong Suh
3. Gerald McCoy
4. Trent Williams
5. Eric Berry
6. Russell Okung
7. Joe Haden
8. Rolando McLain
9. C.J. Spiller
10. Tyson Alualu

Out of those 10, I'd say that Suh is definitely the player that I'd give the most money to. McCoy is good, but not on Suh's level. Berry is a great safety, but I'd rather pay a DT big money than a safety. Ultimately it was the old rookie pay scale that killed us with Suh's deal.

If your argument is that he should make less than 12 million on his next contract, then that's a different debate. And it's one that I might agree with you. But complaining about how much Suh is making right now is stupid because there's nothing the Lions could've done about it. And just to be clear, his huge current cap hit is another argument about whether restructuring should've happened or not. But it has nothing to do with the amount of money he's being paid. The cap hit is just accounting.

I have no problem with what hes making if hes actually living up to it. I can piss 5.5 sacks Out of our mega contracts (which are clearly handcuffing this team into becoming a well rounded TEAM) only CJ has earned his money. You guys label Schwartz a brilliant football mind....he said the same exact thing word for word after he was let go.

 

[tonyballs]

hes a beast no doubt....but I can find people with his stats that make 10s of millions of dollars less than him.

Stats??? Who gives a fuck? Suh is a monster and he lives up to the hype. He does everything right that a DT should do and he's worth every penny. Fuck your stats, buddy...they mean jack. 31 teams would die for his services, he's the best in the game hands down.

 

[lgolfer]

I have no problem with what hes making if hes actually living up to it. I can piss 5.5 sacks Out of our mega contracts (which are clearly handcuffing this team into becoming a well rounded TEAM) only CJ has earned his money. You guys label Schwartz a brilliant football mind....he said the same exact thing word for word after he was let go.

To be clear, I never labelled Schwartz a "brilliant football mind."

 

[cheeno]

To be clear, I never labelled Schwartz a "brilliant football mind."

The most brilliant football mind since "Radio".

 

[mhughes0021]

Stats??? Who gives a fuck? Suh is a monster and he lives up to the hype. He does everything right that a DT should do and he's worth every penny. Fuck your stats, buddy...they mean jack. 31 teams would die for his services, he's the best in the game hands down.

unfortunately, stats, production and actually doing something while youre on the field is what helps translate into wins. No one on the dline did anything worth a shit last year.....

 

[kdp80]

Houston played hurt. You will like him again in 2014.

Keep believing that LKP. Houston was a mess last year, the only thing hurt was his confidence.

 

[tonyballs]

unfortunately, stats, production and actually doing something while youre on the field is what helps translate into wins. No one on the dline did anything worth a shit last year.....

Dumb as usual. That's why Suh was a Pro Bowler and 1st team All Pro, right? Because he didn`t do "anything worth a shit" in your eyes. Brilliant analogy...

 

[mhughes0021]

Dumb as usual. That's why Suh was a Pro Bowler and 1st team All Pro, right? Because he didn`t do "anything worth a shit" in your eyes. Brilliant analogy...

theres no way 5.5 sacks and 40 tackles should get you all pro....they need new voters.

 

[tonyballs]

theres no way 5.5 sacks and 40 tackles should get you all pro....they need new voters.

Yeah, you`re right. You`re the only guy on the planet who thinks that though. What a fn surprise...all of a sudden Suh `doesn`t deserve to be All Pro?

 

[Mitchrapp]

He was a second team All-Pro.

 

[mhughes0021]

He was a second team All-Pro.

if youre not first youre last...

 

[LKP]

Only one 4-3 DE and one OLB had more hurries than Suh. (Brian Robison and Tamba Hali). And Gerald McCoy had more at DT.

Suh would be top 10 in QB hits compared to all 4-3 DEs. And top 3 compared to all OLBS with 14 QB hits (matches Terrell Suggs/Trent Cole). Only Coples and Jason Worilds had more QB hits.

Suh is a monster. Disruptive force at a position that doesn't usually get that many sacks, hits and hurries. And he's good in run defense.

He's worth his 5 year 60 million contract he got. And the restructures were worth it to get Quin, Bush on the team and Levy re-signed.

 

[tsmith7559]

Only one 4-3 DE and one OLB had more hurries than Suh. (Brian Robison and Tamba Hali). And Gerald McCoy had more at DT.

Suh would be top 10 in QB hits compared to all 4-3 DEs. And top 3 compared to all OLBS with 14 QB hits (matches Terrell Suggs/Trent Cole). Only Coples and Jason Worilds had more QB hits.

Suh is a monster. Disruptive force at a position that doesn't usually get that many sacks, hits and hurries. And he's good in run defense.

He's worth his 5 year 60 million contract he got. And the restructures were worth it to get Quin, Bush on the team and Levy re-signed.

i guess it comes down to, is he worth $13-14mill
idk..that money buys you J Byrd and A. Verner...
would you trade SUH for those two?

 

[mhughes0021]

Only one 4-3 DE and one OLB had more hurries than Suh. (Brian Robison and Tamba Hali). And Gerald McCoy had more at DT.

Suh would be top 10 in QB hits compared to all 4-3 DEs. And top 3 compared to all OLBS with 14 QB hits (matches Terrell Suggs/Trent Cole). Only Coples and Jason Worilds had more QB hits.

Suh is a monster. Disruptive force at a position that doesn't usually get that many sacks, hits and hurries. And he's good in run defense.

He's worth his 5 year 60 million contract he got. And the restructures were worth it to get Quin, Bush on the team and Levy re-signed.

MAN, I gotta give it to you...you are damn good at twisting shit. OFCOURSE he is high on the list of hits and hurries when you don't actually GET to the qb. He is SIXTY SECOND...leme say it again....62nd in sacks last year. 10 DTs finished higher than him in sacks. So secretly hiding actual info when you write your BS posts might fool some people into thinking you use "Actual data" to argue your cases....but in reality you just always hide the real info and use facts that only benefit your argument. So yes, you are correct.....Suh is very very good at hits and hurries...which is to be expected when youre not actually sacking the qb lol....duh. Throwing in the BS argument that DTS don't get sacks is absurd when he had 3-4 DTs on the total sack charts higher than him. Now THAT is a position that isn't supposed to get sacks....and some no namer from NE that only played a partial year got more sacks than suh got. Theres no excuse for that if you are an "all pro" that is negotiating to be the highet paid player at his position.

Constantly you reward people on this team for mediocrity. A "hurry" is translated into you were late getting there or too slow to get there.

 

[LKP]

MAN, I gotta give it to you...you are damn good at twisting shit. OFCOURSE he is high on the list of hits and hurries when you don't actually GET to the qb. He is SIXTY SECOND...leme say it again....62nd in sacks last year. 10 DTs finished higher than him in sacks. So secretly hiding actual info when you write your BS posts might fool some people into thinking you use "Actual data" to argue your cases....but in reality you just always hide the real info and use facts that only benefit your argument. So yes, you are correct.....Suh is very very good at hits and hurries...which is to be expected when youre not actually sacking the qb lol....duh. Throwing in the BS argument that DTS don't get sacks is absurd when he had 3-4 DTs on the total sack charts higher than him. Now THAT is a position that isn't supposed to get sacks....and some no namer from NE that only played a partial year got more sacks than suh got. Theres no excuse for that if you are an "all pro" that is negotiating to be the highet paid player at his position.

Constantly you reward people on this team for mediocrity. A "hurry" is translated into you were late getting there or too slow to get there.

Hits and hurries are very important. They cause turnovers and incompletions. Your football assessment is lacking if you disagree. Sacks are tough for a DT. Suh was the 2nd highest rated DT in terms of pressure overall. He's a stud. Plus good agains the run and requires doubles.

 

[LKP]

i guess it comes down to, is he worth $13-14mill
idk..that money buys you J Byrd and A. Verner...
would you trade SUH for those two?

We could pay a Verner. We are paying Chris Houston and Glover Quin instead. I like both those guys. It's unnecessary to get rid of Suh. Lions have plenty of second tier contracts. If you don't like the ones they have, then they'll swap out Jones and Houston next year if they don't produce in 2014 for free agents with different free agents with second tier contracts.

 

[LKP]

And really the market is based on Atkins which Suh compares too well. 11 million per he got. That was last year for Atkins. Cap went up so make it 12 million per. And then if Suh is a dick in negotiations 13-14 million per. Lions can handle up to 14 million per.