Coaching Search Recap

[Mitchrapp]

Okay Mitch. The point is is that the guy got Tebow to the playoffs through whatever means. Now he gets Rivers to the playoffs and its all Whisenhunt?

I never suggested otherwise. That's a conversation for someone else.

 

[cheeno]

I never suggested otherwise. That's a conversation for someone else.

We are on the same page then.

You like the Wiz, Mitch, what are some of his positives, other than being the best of the rest.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I know very little outside of looking at his record. But of the names I hear I'd want him over the others.

 

[cheeno]

I know very little outside of looking at his record. But of the names I hear I'd want him over the others.

I hear ya, the names are pretty thin. His record outside of the Super Bowl loss is pure mediocrity. Caldwell lost a Super Bowl too and he's got a better w-l percentage. Cadwell one a Super Bowl with Flacco as a O Coordinator, he should get credit for that as much as the Wiz gets for a good Rivers season.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I will say the one thing I do like, the chance to have a 3-4. I know others aren't keen on it but I've wanted the 3-4 for some time. Even if we might not have the right personnel.

 

[cheeno]

I will say the one thing I do like, the chance to have a 3-4. I know others aren't keen on it but I've wanted the 3-4 for some time. Even if we might not have the right personnel.

It would be an interesting transition. You have to put Suh at DE. Whisenhunt's not a defensive guy so I think we might get some more of Gunther to be honest.

 

[Mitchrapp]

It would be an interesting transition. You have to put Suh at DE. Whisenhunt's not a defensive guy so I think we might get some more of Gunther to be honest.

That I do not want. No Gunther. I rather have Mike Tice and Marinelli..

 

[lgolfer]

Here's also what scares me:

In 2012, Whisenhunt guided the Cardinals to their first 4-0 start since 1974, when the franchise was coached by Don Coryell in St. Louis. The Cardinals proceeded to lose 9 straight games and in week 14 were blown out by the Seattle Seahawks 58-0. The losing streak finally ended the following week with a 38-10 victory over the Detroit Lions.
On December 31, 2012, Whisenhunt was fired after 3 straight non-playoff seasons. Rod Graves, general manager at the time, was also relieved of his duties.

In 2013 they were a 10 win team and just missed the playoffs! With Carson Palmer's corpse! No one sees this?

Yes, I obviously don't like the fact that they lost 9 straight games. But their QBs were Kolb for the first 2 games (injured his ribs in 2nd game, didn't play next 7 games!), then John Skelton for 3 games, then Ryan Lindley for 3 games, and both Lindley and Skelton played in their 9th consecutive loss.

Between Skelton and Lindley, they had completion percentages of 54.2% and 52%. Skelton went to Fordham University, Lindley went to San Diego State and neither has played in an NFL game since the 2012 season.

So my point is that while Whisenhunt's team did lose 9 in a row, he had the worst QBs in the league as well during that stretch. Carson Palmer isn't great, but he's average when given a few offensive weapons like Fitzgerald and Michael Floyd.

 

[cheeno]

Yes, I obviously don't like the fact that they lost 9 straight games. But their QBs were Kolb for the first 2 games (injured his ribs in 2nd game, didn't play next 7 games!), then John Skelton for 3 games, then Ryan Lindley for 3 games, and both Lindley and Skelton played in their 9th consecutive loss.

Between Skelton and Lindley, they had completion percentages of 54.2% and 52%. Skelton went to Fordham University, Lindley went to San Diego State and neither has played in an NFL game since the 2012 season.

So my point is that while Whisenhunt's team did lose 9 in a row, he had the worst QBs in the league as well during that stretch. Carson Palmer isn't great, but he's average when given a few offensive weapons like Fitzgerald and Michael Floyd.

I agree Skelton and Lindley were terrible, but as a offensive guy could he have made them at least passable? As you say there was talent around them in their receiving core. Maybe not. That was my point about McCoy winning games with Tebow. Even with a great quarterback in Warner his w-l record wasn't great. Your lucky to make the playoffs at 9-7 let alone a Super Bowl, but Warner got hot and you have to give him credit for getting there. Other than that years of 5-11 and 8-8 don't get me steamy. One 10 win season is what Schwartz has and that's why we fired him. It wasn't like the Cards were some power house at their height or even favorites to win their division. 1 great year, one good. Rest bad.

 

[derrydancingclown]

Yes, I obviously don't like the fact that they lost 9 straight games. But their QBs were Kolb for the first 2 games (injured his ribs in 2nd game, didn't play next 7 games!), then John Skelton for 3 games, then Ryan Lindley for 3 games, and both Lindley and Skelton played in their 9th consecutive loss.

Between Skelton and Lindley, they had completion percentages of 54.2% and 52%. Skelton went to Fordham University, Lindley went to San Diego State and neither has played in an NFL game since the 2012 season.

So my point is that while Whisenhunt's team did lose 9 in a row, he had the worst QBs in the league as well during that stretch. Carson Palmer isn't great, but he's average when given a few offensive weapons like Fitzgerald and Michael Floyd.

He did make them passable. Without the Wiz they would have completed less than 45%.

 

[kmd47]

I LOVE the Wizs's offense compared to Linehans honestly....

 

[grandy]

5 Questions with Revenge of the Birds about Whisenhunt

http://www.prideofdetroit.com/2014/1/6/5272270/lions-coaching-search-ken-whisenhunt-cardinals

1. Whisenhunt's success in Arizona was largely tied to having Kurt Warner as his quarterback, and his downfall was really not being able to find a suitable replacement for Warner. Was this a case of Whisenhunt not being able to develop his non-Warner quarterbacks or there simply being no real talent at the position after Warner left?

As you have seen by the success of the Cardinals in Year 1 of the Bruce Arians staff, there was a lot of core talent on the roster. However, Whisenhunt's downfall was connected to the quarterback position. The problem was two-fold. He neither found the right guy nor developed him. Was it the talent? Probably. Look at the guys who started -- Matt Leinart (done nothing), Derek Anderson (professional benchwarmer behind Cam Newton), Max Hall (not in the league), Rich Bartel (have you ever heard of him?), John Skelton (he gets lots of workouts... because he doesn't have a team), Kevin Kolb (always injured), Ryan Lindley (probably won't have a job next season) and Brian Hoyer (might have talent). GM Rod Graves and Whisenhunt hitched their wagon to Kolb and his injuries ruined things.

At the same time, while the talent hasn't been here, the guys that were here never improved. So it has to be both.

2. On a related note, how much credit does Whisenhunt deserve for Warner's resurgence from 2007-09?

Fans don't give him enough credit. It was working with Whisenhunt that he started wearing gloves. He worked very hard at ball control. Whiz gave him the opportunity to compete. What people don't remember was Warner getting booed because of his fumbles in 2006. Fans were screaming for Matt Leinart. The talent was already there, but the Rams gave up on him, the Giants gave up on him and he was very close to done in Arizona. Whiz had a lot to do with his resurgence.

3. The Lions don't really have the personnel to run a 3-4 defense, which is what Whisenhunt utilized in Arizona. What were the strengths and weaknesses of the Cardinals' defenses under Whisenhunt, and was the decision to go with a 3-4 a philosophical choice or based more on his team's personnel?

Whiz is a 3-4 guy. He ran a hybrid defense with Clancy Pendergast. Under Billy Davis, they made the transition to a 3-4 and continued with Ray Horton. Whiz, when interviewing DC candidates, also looked at mostly 3-4 guys.

The defenses weren't particularly good until Ray Horton. Pendergast, a holdover from Dennis Green, was good at individual game plans. But until Horton, the Arizona defenses were not great at anything. They did use a lot of blitzing from Adrian Wilson at the time and pressure from other DB positions.

4. One of the Lions' biggest issues under Jim Schwartz was discipline. They committed a lot of stupid penalties (pre-snap penalties, personal fouls, etc.), and they turned the ball over a lot. How were the Cardinals in the discipline department when Whisenhunt was the head coach?

Yes and no. He maintains a very even demeanor on and off the field, but his teams did have guys like Darnell Dockett. Pre-snap penalties were a problem with individuals (Levi Brown, Leonard Pope) and sometimes personal fouls (Dockett, Antrel Rolle), but he wanted a disciplined team.

5. Replacing Whisenhunt with Bruce Arians was clearly the right move for the Cardinals. Do you think Whisenhunt can be successful as a head coach again in the NFL?

I certainly believe so. He took an Arizona Cardinals franchise and changed things. They went 8-8, 9-7 and 10-6 in his first three seasons. He knows offense. He is a players' coach. His players like him. He is well-respected in the league. He is smart. He had a little too much power in Arizona in personnel, he did not address the offensive line enough and he never found the answer at quarterback after Kurt Warner. With a QB like Matt Stafford, who has the talent but hasn't always gotten it together, he would be a great choice. He is the antithesis of Jim Schwartz.

 

[LKP]

Lions will interview Mike Munchak.

 

[lgolfer]

Lions will interview Mike Munchak.

Oh, great...let's just hire another Titans coach.

 

[tonyballs]

Oh, great...let's just hire another Titans coach.

He's a HOF OL and looked like a good coach. Surrounded by shit Tennessee

 

[kingofdetroit57]

He's a HOF OL and looked like a good coach. Surrounded by shit Tennessee

I was gonna ask for thoughts on him. I really knew nothing about him until I heard his name mentioned on the radio today. From what the radio guys said, he was never even an O or D coordinator, so it wasn't sounding too promising to me. Also, they were saying he was most likely going to end up at Penn State and that it was somewhat of a surprise that his name came up with the Lions job.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I say give Mooch another try.

 

[tonyballs]

I was gonna ask for thoughts on him. I really knew nothing about him until I heard his name mentioned on the radio today. From what the radio guys said, he was never even an O or D coordinator, so it wasn't sounding too promising to me. Also, they were saying he was most likely going to end up at Penn State and that it was somewhat of a surprise that his name came up with the Lions job.

He played in Tennessee and he was an OL coach i believe. Part of the organization for 30 years i guess. He wont get the Lions job IMO

 

[kingofdetroit57]

He played in Tennessee and he was an OL coach i believe. Part of the organization for 30 years i guess. He wont get the Lions job IMO

I hope you're right. I really don't want us to go after another first time HC. I want somebody with a track record of success who can coach these guys on the fundamentals and the "little things" that make the difference in close games. Right now, Wiz sounds like the best option for us based on the names I've heard thrown around, but even he seems fairly underwhelming to me.

 

[sggatecl]

I hope you're right. I really don't want us to go after another first time HC. I want somebody with a track record of success who can coach these guys on the fundamentals and the "little things" that make the difference in close games. Right now, Wiz sounds like the best option for us based on the names I've heard thrown around, but even he seems fairly underwhelming to me.

Not saying he's the right guy, but Munch isn't a first time HC. He was just head coach of the Titans. And they actually offered him a multi year extension but he said "fuck off" because they wanted him to change his staff for PR purposes.

I have a lot of respect for a guy that can walk away from 30 years of service because he doesn't believe in their current business practices.