Coaching Search Recap

[cheeno]

I hope you're right. I really don't want us to go after another first time HC. I want somebody with a track record of success who can coach these guys on the fundamentals and the "little things" that make the difference in close games. Right now, Wiz sounds like the best option for us based on the names I've heard thrown around, but even he seems fairly underwhelming to me.

I'm severely underwhelmed too. The wiz called a very good game for SD however. In my mind this is Martin Mayhew severely overestimating the talent on the team again reading the press clippings and standing pat after the 2011 season. We have individual talent but as a team we are behind some teams in our own division. I would be interviewing Jimbo, Mahlzhan, Stoops, Dantonio, fresh college guys who consistently win when their teams are building or overmatched. Mayhew thinks we need to steady the ship when I think we need to strap on an outboard.

 

[LKP]

I'm severely underwhelmed too. The wiz called a very good game for SD however. In my mind this is Martin Mayhew severely overestimating the talent on the team again reading the press clippings and standing pat after the 2011 season. We have individual talent but as a team we are behind some teams in our own division. I would be interviewing Jimbo, Mahlzhan, Stoops, Dantonio, fresh college guys who consistently win when their teams are building or overmatched. Mayhew thinks we need to steady the ship when I think we need to strap on an outboard.

Those teams are not overmatched athletically in college. Those guys need to prove it in the NFL. Chip Kelly did. Spurrier didn't.

 

[lgolfer]

I'm severely underwhelmed too. The wiz called a very good game for SD however. In my mind this is Martin Mayhew severely overestimating the talent on the team again reading the press clippings and standing pat after the 2011 season. We have individual talent but as a team we are behind some teams in our own division. I would be interviewing Jimbo, Mahlzhan, Stoops, Dantonio, fresh college guys who consistently win when their teams are building or overmatched. Mayhew thinks we need to steady the ship when I think we need to strap on an outboard.

I don't think getting a coach with no NFL experience is a good idea. I know you stated the reasons you don't like Whisenhunt a while back, but I don't see how those reasons add up to him being a worse option than any of the guys you just listed. Or how you can be severely underwhelmed by him.

This should help you understand how big of a difference that Whisenhunt has made this year and that it wasn't just McCoy's offense.
?He?s been awesome,? quarterback Philip Rivers said. ?It?s his offense. I mean, he?s installed it from Day 1, he?s called every play this year. I think his demeanor, his command in front of the room is very ? he?s very demanding, he?s got a great presence. In Pittsburgh they were able to pound the football, but Ben aired it out, too. In Arizona with Kurt, the no-huddle and the empty and all the things they did, he?s very diverse and adapting and doing what the players do best.?
http://www.freep.com/article/201401.../detroit-lions-coaching-search-ken-whisenhunt

 

[cheeno]

I don't think getting a coach with no NFL experience is a good idea. I know you stated the reasons you don't like Whisenhunt a while back, but I don't see how those reasons add up to him being a worse option than any of the guys you just listed. Or how you can be severely underwhelmed by him.

This should help you understand how big of a difference that Whisenhunt has made this year and that it wasn't just McCoy's offense.
?He?s been awesome,? quarterback Philip Rivers said. ?It?s his offense. I mean, he?s installed it from Day 1, he?s called every play this year. I think his demeanor, his command in front of the room is very ? he?s very demanding, he?s got a great presence. In Pittsburgh they were able to pound the football, but Ben aired it out, too. In Arizona with Kurt, the no-huddle and the empty and all the things they did, he?s very diverse and adapting and doing what the players do best.?
http://www.freep.com/article/201401.../detroit-lions-coaching-search-ken-whisenhunt

I'd rather take an unproven winner than a proven loser.

 

[cheeno]

Those teams are not overmatched athletically in college. Those guys need to prove it in the NFL. Chip Kelly did. Spurrier didn't.

Harbaugh did. Carroll has been a far superior coach since USC. Add Kelly and every college guy in the NFL has successfully made the jump. The way the NFL is now makes it much easier to jump.

 

[lgolfer]

I'd rather take an unproven winner than a proven loser.

That's like saying you'd rather take a minor league coach who is a proven winner in the minor leagues, than take a coach who has won in the NFL as an assistant coach (including a Super Bowl) and made the Super Bowl even as a HC. It makes no sense to me.

The quote from Philip Rivers addressed your main concern that you listed last week about Whisenhunt: that McCoy might be the main reason San Diego's offense is doing so much better.

Your other 2 concerns were that we'd either keep Gunther or switch to a 3-4 and that we'd switch O-line coaches. I highly doubt we'd switch to a 3-4 this year because it'd be stupid if we did. I don't think Whisenhunt will blindly switch our defensive scheme this year. Overall, while our defense wasn't great this year, it wasn't very bad. Maybe he brings in a different 4-3 guy. Lastly, I loved what Washburn has done this year with the O-line, but Grimm has a history of being a great O-line coach.

 

[cheeno]

That's like saying you'd rather take a minor league coach who is a proven winner in the minor leagues, than take a coach who has won in the NFL as an assistant coach (including a Super Bowl) and made the Super Bowl even as a HC. It makes no sense to me.

The quote from Philip Rivers addressed your main concern that you listed last week about Whisenhunt: that McCoy might be the main reason San Diego's offense is doing so much better.

Your other 2 concerns were that we'd either keep Gunther or switch to a 3-4 and that we'd switch O-line coaches. I highly doubt we'd switch to a 3-4 this year because it'd be stupid if we did. I don't think Whisenhunt will blindly switch our defensive scheme this year. Overall, while our defense wasn't great this year, it wasn't very bad. Maybe he brings in a different 4-3 guy. Lastly, I loved what Washburn has done this year with the O-line, but Grimm has a history of being a great O-line coach.

The NCAA is not a minor league by any stretch. Houston didn't think Bill O'Brien was a minor league coach. Whisenhunt would be fine here, if he does go to a 3-4 Suh is gone and along with him some of the talent everyone is talking about. That is why I don't want him.

 

[LKP]

Harbaugh did. Carroll has been a far superior coach since USC. Add Kelly and every college guy in the NFL has successfully made the jump. The way the NFL is now makes it much easier to jump.

Harbaugh had Luck though in 2010. Not really overmatched with him.

 

[lgolfer]

The NCAA is not a minor league by any stretch. Houston,didn't think Bill O'Brien was a minor league coach.

That's because he's been an NFL QB coach and NFL offensive coordinator for the Patriots, who made the playoffs 4 out of the 5 years he was there. He also coached Tom Brady, so he has plenty of NFL coaching experience.

 

[LKP]

The NCAA is not a minor league by any stretch. Houston didn't think Bill O'Brien was a minor league coach. Whisenhunt would be fine here, if he does go to a 3-4 Suh is gone and along with him some of the talent everyone is talking about. That is why I don't want him.

Agreed with not wanting a 3-4 with Suh gone.

 

[lgolfer]

The NCAA is not a minor league by any stretch. Houston didn't think Bill O'Brien was a minor league coach. Whisenhunt would be fine here, if he does go to a 3-4 Suh is gone and along with him some of the talent everyone is talking about. That is why I don't want him.

Well I'm hoping Whisenhunt won't be stupid enough to alienate one of our best players and get him to leave the team. I want Suh here just as much as you do.

 

[cheeno]

Well I'm hoping Whisenhunt won't be stupid enough to alienate one of our best players and get him to leave the team. I want Suh here just as much as you do.

The way I see it the Wiz is either Tom Coughlin or Bobby Ross. Ross alienated Barry. Scary range between those two coaches. College coaches have become innovators in the NFL, even Marrone has Buffalo on the right track. For the Lions its time to swing for the fences take a huge risk and think out of the box. Mayhew is the problem, he thinks why go out of the box when we have the team to win it all. Huge overestimate of talent being fed by the media. Mayhew to me doesn't seem to be desperate at all. But why would he he watched his predecessor fiddle while Rome burned for a decade.

 

[lgolfer]

The way I see it the Wiz is either Tom Coughlin or Bobby Ross. Ross alienated Barry. Scary range between those two coaches. College coaches have become innovators in the NFL, even Marrone has Buffalo on the right track. For the Lions its time to swing for the fences take a huge risk and think out of the box. Mayhew is the problem, he thinks why go out of the box when we have the team to win it all. Huge overestimate of talent being fed by the media. Mayhew to me doesn't seem to be desperate at all. But why would he he watched his predecessor fiddle while Rome burned for a decade.

I don't know if you saw my discussion with Hughes in the "You're the GM" thread, but Hughes even agreed with me that if we have a good offseason and Stafford improves, we have enough talent. If we do what I laid out below (which is entirely feasible), I think we have the talent to make a run in the playoffs. Do you disagree with that?

#2 WR: draft
#3 WR: free agency (more likely, maybe Eddie Royal) or draft
TE: need can be filled by resigning Pettigrew (Michael Williams will be our blocking TE, he was on IR all year)
RT: Waddle proved he can be the RT for the future. We should look for a backup Tackle (draft or free agency: backup tackles come pretty cheap)
C: like you've mentioned in the draft thread, we can get a center in round 4 or later
DE: we currently have Ansah, Taylor, Jason Jones. We should add one veteran (free agency: won't be too expensive)
OLB: stay with Ashlee Palmer or free agency or draft: will be inexpensive (Palmer is due 1.25 million in 2014)
CB: draft one and either Slay or Houston should be our other starter, with Bentley in the slot
Safety: get Delmas to accept a pay cut or get rid of him (I'm more in favor of this) and probably sign someone relatively cheap in free agency unless there are starter-ready safeties in the draft (I haven't researched this)

 

[cheeno]

I don't know if you saw my discussion with Hughes in the "You're the GM" thread, but Hughes even agreed with me that if we have a good offseason and Stafford improves, we have enough talent. If we do what I laid out below (which is entirely feasible), I think we have the talent to make a run in the playoffs. Do you disagree with that?

#2 WR: draft
#3 WR: free agency (more likely, maybe Eddie Royal) or draft
TE: need can be filled by resigning Pettigrew (Michael Williams will be our blocking TE, he was on IR all year)
RT: Waddle proved he can be the RT for the future. We should look for a backup Tackle (draft or free agency: backup tackles come pretty cheap)
C: like you've mentioned in the draft thread, we can get a center in round 4 or later
DE: we currently have Ansah, Taylor, Jason Jones. We should add one veteran (free agency: won't be too expensive)
OLB: stay with Ashlee Palmer or free agency or draft: will be inexpensive (Palmer is due 1.25 million in 2014)
CB: draft one and either Slay or Houston should be our other starter, with Bentley in the slot
Safety: get Delmas to accept a pay cut or get rid of him (I'm more in favor of this) and probably sign someone relatively cheap in free agency unless there are starter-ready safeties in the draft (I haven't researched this)

I agree with everything here. The only thing is you could make a similar list for every team in the North, they have this offseason to get better too. Green Bay will be better and so will Chicago. It all comes down to Stafford in the end, at least Mayhew has recognized that.

If you parallel us with the Afc East, Tom Brady has owned that division for more than a decade because he is the best qb there and arguably the best in the league. He was only dethroned by Rex Ryan's brilliant defensive adjustments. In our division Aaron Rodgers is the best qb in the division and maybe the league. We either need Stafford to get on that level or bring in an innovative coach to win it by other means. We are the Dolphins of that division right now.

If you believe Stafford can get on the level of ARod or the Wiz is a Ryan level coach. Go that route. If not we are stuck as the dolphins because this is a qb/coach driven league.

 

[mhughes0021]

I don't know if you saw my discussion with Hughes in the "You're the GM" thread, but Hughes even agreed with me that if we have a good offseason and Stafford improves, we have enough talent. If we do what I laid out below (which is entirely feasible), I think we have the talent to make a run in the playoffs. Do you disagree with that?

#2 WR: draft
#3 WR: free agency (more likely, maybe Eddie Royal) or draft
TE: need can be filled by resigning Pettigrew (Michael Williams will be our blocking TE, he was on IR all year)
RT: Waddle proved he can be the RT for the future. We should look for a backup Tackle (draft or free agency: backup tackles come pretty cheap)
C: like you've mentioned in the draft thread, we can get a center in round 4 or later
DE: we currently have Ansah, Taylor, Jason Jones. We should add one veteran (free agency: won't be too expensive)
OLB: stay with Ashlee Palmer or free agency or draft: will be inexpensive (Palmer is due 1.25 million in 2014)
CB: draft one and either Slay or Houston should be our other starter, with Bentley in the slot
Safety: get Delmas to accept a pay cut or get rid of him (I'm more in favor of this) and probably sign someone relatively cheap in free agency unless there are starter-ready safeties in the draft (I haven't researched this)

In Xanders we trust.

 

[lgolfer]

I agree with everything here. The only thing is you could make a similar list for every team in the North, they have this offseason to get better too. Green Bay will be better and so will Chicago. It all comes down to Stafford in the end, at least Mayhew has recognized that.

If you parallel us with the Afc East, Tom Brady has owned that division for more than a decade because he is the best qb there and arguably the best in the league. He was only dethroned by Rex Ryan's brilliant defensive adjustments. In our division Aaron Rodgers is the best qb in the division and maybe the league. We either need Stafford to get on that level or bring in an innovative coach to win it by other means. We are the Dolphins of that division right now.

If you believe Stafford can get on the level of ARod or the Wiz is a Ryan level coach. Go that route. If not we are stuck as the dolphins because this is a qb/coach driven league.

Thankfully it's not just Stafford vs. Rodgers. That's why we've invested heavily in our D-line. It doesn't matter how good a QB is if he doesn't have time to throw. In the 1st game when Rodgers was playing the Packers only scored 22 points. I'm pretty happy with that against Rodgers. If we get better receivers and Stafford improves a little (doesn't have to be Aaron Rodgers level) we should be able to score more than 22.
And Green Bay's defense isn't exactly tops in the NFL. I think Whisenhunt is a good enough coach to get Stafford to improve, which I think makes us competitive with Green Bay and Chicago.

 

[brewer229]

I don't know if you saw my discussion with Hughes in the "You're the GM" thread, but Hughes even agreed with me that if we have a good offseason and Stafford improves, we have enough talent. If we do what I laid out below (which is entirely feasible), I think we have the talent to make a run in the playoffs. Do you disagree with that?

#2 WR: draft
#3 WR: free agency (more likely, maybe Eddie Royal) or draft
TE: need can be filled by resigning Pettigrew (Michael Williams will be our blocking TE, he was on IR all year)
RT: Waddle proved he can be the RT for the future. We should look for a backup Tackle (draft or free agency: backup tackles come pretty cheap)
C: like you've mentioned in the draft thread, we can get a center in round 4 or later
DE: we currently have Ansah, Taylor, Jason Jones. We should add one veteran (free agency: won't be too expensive)
OLB: stay with Ashlee Palmer or free agency or draft: will be inexpensive (Palmer is due 1.25 million in 2014)
CB: draft one and either Slay or Houston should be our other starter, with Bentley in the slot
Safety: get Delmas to accept a pay cut or get rid of him (I'm more in favor of this) and probably sign someone relatively cheap in free agency unless there are starter-ready safeties in the draft (I haven't researched this)

We had enough talent this year to make a run.

This sounds all great on paper, but let's get specifics. What WR in the draft is ready to step in and be a #2 from day one? Same question with 4th round or later C? what CB?

Your pulling a lot if Day #1 starters from this draft.

What good cheap vet DE wants to come at a low rate to be part I'd a rotation?

 

[cheeno]

Thankfully it's not just Stafford vs. Rodgers. That's why we've invested heavily in our D-line. It doesn't matter how good a QB is if he doesn't have time to throw. In the 1st game when Rodgers was playing the Packers only scored 22 points. I'm pretty happy with that against Rodgers. If we get better receivers and Stafford improves a little (doesn't have to be Aaron Rodgers level) we should be able to score more than 22.
And Green Bay's defense isn't exactly tops in the NFL. I think Whisenhunt is a good enough coach to get Stafford to improve, which I think makes us competitive with Green Bay and Chicago.

Rogers/McCarthy pencil them in for 10 wins a season. Chicago went the innovator route on the offensive side of the ball and didn't hire a retread. Bills did the same. Their GMs recognized the same thing that I have come to the conclusion, you need to take it to the next level against the Pack/NE or be stuck like other teams in the AFC East.

The Wiz seems to me to be a steady the ship ingrained system guy (like that is all we need in Mayhew's mind just believing the media narrative) far from the innovator, but some of the moves in the Cincy game made me think differently. I keep coming back to the Cincy game because that was the only SD game I watched with a critical eye, but Cincy lost that game as much as SD won it though. Remember SD almost lost to KC's B-team the week prior.

 

[LKP]

Lions went 4-2 in the division under Schwartz/Linehan with 2 losses without Calvin (the main talent). They have the talent to compete in this division. Bears 2-4 with a miracle win aganist Vikings Week 2 and beating Rodgerless Green Bay. Week 17 and one Lions game at Chicago was close though.


The real question is do the Lions have the talent to win at New England, at Carolina, home versus Saints, against Atlanta in London, at Arizona next year, New York Giants (no more pick 6), at New York Jets, Tampa (avoid 6 turnovers) with Lovie now.

Buffalo, Miami, Vikings twice they better win.

 

[lgolfer]

We had enough talent this year to make a run.

This sounds all great on paper, but let's get specifics. What WR in the draft is ready to step in and be a #2 from day one? Same question with 4th round or later C? what CB?

Your pulling a lot if Day #1 starters from this draft.

What good cheap vet DE wants to come at a low rate to be part I'd a rotation?

Unless Stafford played at an elite level (better than his 2011 year), we weren't going to make a run in the playoffs with the WRs we had. If we had gotten home field advantage we would've played the 49ers or Saints, neither of whom I think we could've beat.

#2 WR: Sammy Watkins (probably will be gone), or Marqise Lee. One of them will still be available when we pick at #10. This draft is loaded at WR. If we take a CB in the 1st round, there are guys like Jordan Matthews (Vanderbilt) or others who can make an immediate impact. (read through the "One of Our Possible Targets Declares" thread)

Center: Keep Raiola on a veteran minimum contract. Drafting a center in the 4th or later is meant to develop behind Raiola because Raiola had his best year in 2013. Or maybe Leroy Harris (who we picked up from the Titans after the 2012 season and was injured part of this year can step in after Raiola is gone)

CB: Justin Gilbert (Ok. State), Darqueze Dennard (MSU), Ifo Ekpre-Olomu (Oregon).

DE: You honestly think it'll be hard to find a decent vet to play next to Suh and Fairley??? Just this past year we got Jason Jones and Israel Idonije.