Gardner looking pretty good

[bamf_16]

Gardner's 18 throws today:

1. Shotgun formation, 1 step, 6 yard completion to Gallon, staple play in this offense.
2. Rollout, interception
3. Shotgun, 3 step drop, out route to Dileo, incomplete, dropped, should have been caught
4. Shotgun, 2 fakes to running backs, bubble screen to Dileo for 4 yards
5. Gardner under center, PA pass to Gallon on a curl for 8 yards - the same type of pass I (and seemingly countless others) have been calling on Borges to do more with Denard
6. Fran Tarkenton impersonation, TD Dileo
7. Gardner under center, rolls right, side steps the rush, hits wide open Roundtree (a pass RR had to jump to catch and the defender was two steps behind, hits him in the stomach he may be able to make a move)
8. Gardner under center, PA pass, rolls right, steps back to his left, hits wide open Jerald Robinson for 22. Pass looked worse than it was; Robinson should have seen the zone coverage, recognized the passing lane and the QB scramble and sat down in the route. Perfect throw in the lane.
9. Gardner under center 3 step drop, hits Funchess on a short out route for 7.
10. Gardner under center, IForm, PA bubble screen to Gallon, thrown into the ground (the one where Gallon gets his ankle rolled up on, bad throw but the whole play looked FUBAR from the beginning)
11. Gardner from the shotgun, rolls left, throws a short pass to wide open Dileo for 8.
12. Gardner rolls right, incomplete to Funchess in the end zone (the play where he kept running and it looked like Gardner thought he'd stop)
13. Gardner in the shotgun, 1 step drop, Gallon on a slant, thrown behind him, ball pops up, almost picked.
14. IForm, play action fake, Gardner hits Gallon for 40+ down the sideline. A really well thrown ball.
15. Gardner in the shotgun, rolls, left, 360 turn at the sidelines and throws it away. Smart play.
16. Jump ball to Gallon in end zone for TD.
17. Gardner in the shotgun, rolls left, throws high and wide to Dileo who jumps up and makes a real nice catch (not one of his better throws)
18. Gardner in the shotgun, PA fake, rolls right, throws on the run across his body, jump ball to Roundtree with RR and Dileo in the area with 2 defenders. Jump ball, pure and simple

A lot of good throws (edit: and 2 GREAT throws). A lot that deserves credit, commendation, and a spot on the depth chart well above Bellomy. A lot that every quarterback needs to do more consistently, and a lot of plays (especially from under center) I think they need to do more of, with either of them playing the position.

 

[bamf_16]

fitz will be more successful AD Denard. That zone read crap just isnt working out for him....by the time denard hands him the ball the entire defense has flown at him and hes just not very good at breaking tackles. He'll be just fine in a more balanced offense. People arent happy with the like of dileo and gallon cause they dont look like michigan WRs. they look like midgets. Is it too much to ask for a guy that atleast looks like a Marquise Walker?

Agree - need to get Fitz running downhill more.

I think a lot of us are hoping Darboh turns into a Walker-esque outside WR.

 

[wlvrnstlr4life]

Interesting point. What did you see today that gave you the impression that there are more play selection options with Gardner?

First off and most important, teams have to honor the pass with Devin in. No one cares about Denard passing the ball. He gives them no reason. You, me, hungry, Victors and a couple others have already said he has learned absolutely nothing in his 4 years. He does the same shit he has always done. Errant throws to the other team, throwing off his back foot, throwing too hard, and no touch whatsofuckingever. Borges is almost forced to call certain plays because he is so scared of Denard coughing the ball up. We ran Pro Set, I, single back, no back. We threw off of the reverse instead of handing it off everytime. We handed it off to the back instead of giving it to Gallon every single time on the reverse. We actually ran the reverse to set up other plays instead of just running reverse to run it. Play action was well, play action. The LB's had to stay honest. Being able to throw into the flat was a sight for sore eyes. If we had to score with little time remaining, I had faith Devin would get it into the flat without bouncing it. It also seemed like the receivers never gave up when Devin had to scramble. He actually threw the ball away to avoid a sack and an int. Denard is fucking ball hog and other teams know it. Key him all day, like the good teams have, and your chances of winning are pretty darn good.

Now, this is just one game and I, like others, are getting a little carried away. Fact is, we didn't see read option left, read option right, reverse to Gallon alllllllll game long. We got a little taste of everything. It was fucking refreshing and a glimpse towards the future, not just with Devin as the QB. Minnesota is not that bad a team. If they beat ILL next week, they're bowl bound. If Kill wasn't such an idiot, it may have been a closer game.

 

[allshouldbleedblue]

Gardner's 18 throws today:

1. Shotgun formation, 1 step, 6 yard completion to Gallon, staple play in this offense.
2. Rollout, interception
3. Shotgun, 3 step drop, out route to Dileo, incomplete, dropped, should have been caught
4. Shotgun, 2 fakes to running backs, bubble screen to Dileo for 4 yards
5. Gardner under center, PA pass to Gallon on a curl for 8 yards - the same type of pass I (and seemingly countless others) have been calling on Borges to do more with Denard
6. Fran Tarkenton impersonation, TD Dileo
7. Gardner under center, rolls right, side steps the rush, hits wide open Roundtree (a pass RR had to jump to catch and the defender was two steps behind, hits him in the stomach he may be able to make a move)
8. Gardner under center, PA pass, rolls right, steps back to his left, hits wide open Jerald Robinson for 22. Pass looked worse than it was; Robinson should have seen the zone coverage, recognized the passing lane and the QB scramble and sat down in the route. Perfect throw in the lane.
9. Gardner under center 3 step drop, hits Funchess on a short out route for 7.
10. Gardner under center, IForm, PA bubble screen to Gallon, thrown into the ground (the one where Gallon gets his ankle rolled up on, bad throw but the whole play looked FUBAR from the beginning)
11. Gardner from the shotgun, rolls left, throws a short pass to wide open Dileo for 8.
12. Gardner rolls right, incomplete to Funchess in the end zone (the play where he kept running and it looked like Gardner thought he'd stop)
13. Gardner in the shotgun, 1 step drop, Gallon on a slant, thrown behind him, ball pops up, almost picked.
14. IForm, play action fake, Gardner hits Gallon for 40+ down the sideline. A really well thrown ball.
15. Gardner in the shotgun, rolls, left, 360 turn at the sidelines and throws it away. Smart play.
16. Jump ball to Gallon in end zone for TD.
17. Gardner in the shotgun, rolls left, throws high and wide to Dileo who jumps up and makes a real nice catch (not one of his better throws)
18. Gardner in the shotgun, PA fake, rolls right, throws on the run across his body, jump ball to Roundtree with RR and Dileo in the area with 2 defenders. Jump ball, pure and simple

A lot of good throws (edit: and 2 GREAT throws). A lot that deserves credit, commendation, and a spot on the depth chart well above Bellomy. A lot that every quarterback needs to do more consistently, and a lot of plays (especially from under center) I think they need to do more of, with either of them playing the position.

you just made my point. "a lot of good throws (edit: and 2 great throws). i think that most of his throws were accurate and smooth. i particularly liked the smooth pass to gallon for 40+ down the sideline. he had touch on the ball and hit him in stride. the tarkenton throw was good not because of the extending the play but because of what happens afterwards. he finds dileo open and hits him on the money for a touchdown instead of running the ball or making a bad throw. i also liked the jump ball in the endzone to gallon. it was put up perfectly for gallon and neither defender had a shot on the ball. these are 3 perfect examples of plays i think he makes look good that i do not think denard does. the jump ball to roundtree was the same kind of pass that denard throws all the time so you cant get mad at him for that more than you do denard. i also think the pass to gallon where he got bent over was rushed because he turned and the blitz was right there and he just threw it into the ground. not necessarily a bad play. also on the miss to funchess where they werent on the same page, if you go back and look i think he was trying to get that to roundtree who had sat in the opening in the back of the endzone but rushed the throw while he was rolling right and just underthrew it. 3 other things were the 3 plays denard would not have done if he was there. the throw away on the sideline and the 2 shots he took on the offsides penalties. all things i liked that he did today that i dont feel confident in denard doing. i would even say i didnt hate his interception because he was just trying to make a play and forced a ball. the db had to dive to make that play so it wasnt horrible.

i will say i am happy because you finally gave devin credit. thats all i was looking for in the whole post. i wasnt trying to have a philosophical discussion about qb. i was just stating why i think you arent giving devin enough credit and its because of things denard doesnt do.

i have said the whole time. i think denard should start and is our best option but not because hes the best qb, because he is the best option and athlete and i will continue to say that. devin will always be the best option to throw the ball because his passes are smooth and crisp and have way more touch than denard does. dneard does not do one thing better in the passing game than devin. and in the same sense, denard will always be the more dangerous run threat. devin is a pretty good runner but its not his number one option and thats what we will be going back to hopefully in the near future.

 

[jwlcosu]

I absolutely hate to utter the asshole's name, but Gardner's running style reminds me of Terrelle Pryor. Looks like he's not even trying very hard, but nobody can catch him.

I had exactly the same thought on a number of plays. Was my first time seeing Gardner play QB to any extent. Long body. Had the misfortune of playing during the Denard era, I guess.

 

[dubbsco]

All you need to look at is his deep ball to Gallon that he caught in stride. Denard would have thrown that 10 yards beyond his hands. He has touch on his passes. Denard does not. I like Denard, he's a great kid, but he cannot throw the damn ball. That's not an opinion.

 

[wheels002]

It was almost a different team on both sides of the ball after the scramble TD. Devin calmed down got some confidence and really turned it on and the defense realized the offense could score and it wasnt all on them like the week before and they actually started playing more relaxed as well.

Devin hadnt really played a meaningful QB snap in over a year and for him to play that well against anyone was great to see. You could see after the TD he got a swagger to him. You know he had seen or heard what has been said about him and that he was never going to be QB here. He knows Shane is coming in. We saw a kid get his dream shot and take a hold of it. My guess is Denard could have played yesterday but Devin had a good week of practice and Hoke made the decision to go with Devin.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

DG definitely seized the opportunity yesterday. He was awesome with only a week of practice. It took a quarter for the O to get n sync with him and for him to get comfortable. But once they did the O really seemed to click. I definitely think that DG has the inside track to be the starting QB next season. Given more play time DG will only get better. It is his position to lose next season at this point. So, for the remaining games this season we have the same problem that we have faced the last two season. Two awesome offensive weapons, both that want to play QB. To get onto the field, DG tried to switch to receiver, which turned out not to be good for the team in the event DXR was injured. We had no backup that was ready to play (this is not a knock on Bellomy, he is a freshman for cryin out loud!). I don't know if DG would have done any better than Bellomy last week vs Neb, having taken no snaps and the way the O seems to be very sensitive to who is playing QB. I am sure he would have struggled for at least a quarter, probably more. Would we have won? No idea. My guess is that it would have been similar to the MSU game last year, when DG came in, which was not good.

So, let's say DXR is ready to go next week. What does Hoke do? Play DXR and sit DG? Do you sit DXR for another week of recovery to save him for ohio*? Do you play DXR and have DG play receiver? Do you play DG at QB and bring in DXR as RB on a few plays? What gives us the best chance to win out? And with the Neb win yesterday it is looking like we are definitely going to have to do unless both PSU and Iowa can beat Neb. I don't think sitting DG in the event he is needed to come in if DXR gets injured again (likely) is a good option given how sensitive the O is to who is playing QB, and that DG needs time to get comfortable in the position. If DXR is able to play most of the game and we need DG to come in towards the end to win, it is not going to work. I also don't think having DG go back to receiver is a good option. It leaves the O without a viable backup at QB, and he hasn't been that great as a receiver. And as I understand the elbow injury, DXR is very likely to injure it again. The fact that he could not finish the Neb game after a relatively minor bump tells me that the injury is getting worse and needs time to recover. So, in my analysis this leaves two options: sit DXR for another week of recovery, or start DG and bring in DXR as a RB for a few plays. Which is best? I am willing to entertain other options. If DXR is ready to go next week, I would start DG at QB and bring in DXR as a RB. Gives the elbow nerve another week to heal and gives DG another game for the O and him to get comfortable. I think this give Michigan the best chance to win next week and to win out the season. Unless Hoke can figure out a way to use both of these guys I am not confident that we can win out.

 

[jever4321]

How the heck does the scenario of Denard at RB give him more time to heal? Don't get me wrong I think it would be interesting to see how that would play out with a healthy Denard, but given the punishment RB's typically take, I think the percentage of him re-injuring his elbow would be pretty high.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

How the heck does the scenario of Denard at RB give him more time to heal? Don't get me wrong I think it would be interesting to see how that would play out with a healthy Denard, but given the punishment RB's typically take, I think the percentage of him re-injuring his elbow would be pretty high.

This is a good point, so you would sit him for another week whether he is ready to go or not? Okay.

I am not saying he would come in and play every play at RB. Have him in there, with protection on his elbow, as a threat to run (or pass for that matter), and give him the ball a few times with the instruction to protect his elbow and do his best not to fall on it. NO stretching out your arms for more yardage, even for a 1st down! If you start him at QB he is going to have to play flat out or it will not work, and it will be even more likely that the elbow will be reinjured. Keeping him involved in the O will make it easier for him and the O when he is ready to come back in and start at QB again (maybe for ohio*). Also, IF this all works, I think it would make it much more difficult for the opposition to game plan for our O, which up to now has been 75-80% DXR. So, teams know that stopping DXR shuts down our O.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

This is a good point, so you would sit him for another week whether he is ready to go or not? Okay.

I am not saying he would come in and play every play at RB. Have him in there, with protection on his elbow, as a threat to run (or pass for that matter), and give him the ball a few times with the instruction to protect his elbow and do his best not to fall on it. NO stretching out your arms for more yardage, even for a 1st down! If you start him at QB he is going to have to play flat out or it will not work, and it will be even more likely that the elbow will be reinjured. Keeping him involved in the O will make it easier for him and the O when he is ready to come back in and start at QB again (maybe for ohio*). Also, IF this all works, I think it would make it much more difficult for the opposition to game plan for our O, which up to now has been 75-80% DXR. So, teams know that stopping DXR shuts down our O.

Also, it keeps DG and the O in sync. Otherwise, DG sits. You can't expect him to prepare to play both receiver and QB. That will not work. Starting DXR means DG will have to come in at some point and the O and he will have to get comfortable all over again. I think that if you start DXR at QB, he will reinjure the elbow. Can we afford that drop off switching back to DG as QB? Not in a close game. As I said, bringing in DG at the end of a game hoping he can pull out the win will not work given the sensitivity the O has shown to who is playing QB.

 

[dubbsco]

Something is not adding up with the injury. I heard all week that Robinson is going to be fine, that it has happened to him in the past, it just takes a little time to go away. I think it is a lot worse than we all originally thought.

 

[jever4321]

If this was my decision I would start Gardner with the idea of getting him more game experience so he's more comfortable. The coaches know what they have in Denard, and unfortunately he's going to take a lot of hits during a game. If I had to grade his assets I would say, (when he's healthy)
running skill = 85
Passing skill = 40

Now when the other team knows he injured and he's not doing want he does best his running grade might drop to, well zero if he's protecting that elbow and his passing will drop too because the defenses will adjust. Basically Denard NOT running eliminates his most effective weapon.

Gardner need as much game experience as he can get. Denard can come in if devin is ineffective. But what do I know. I'm just a fan.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

Something is not adding up with the injury. I heard all week that Robinson is going to be fine, that it has happened to him in the past, it just takes a little time to go away. I think it is a lot worse than we all originally thought.

I agree. Given the fairly slight but it appeared to take in the Neb game, I think it is worse that what has been indicated. And I think I read in another post that this kind of injury takes six weeks to heal, if it ever completely heals.

 

[bamf_16]

At its worst, yet still not requiring surgery, it's 6-8 weeks of rest to being symptom free. Now, a better conditioned athlete like this kid, it's going to be less, and he's going to be out on the field before fully healed, as long as he can grip the ball. So 2-3 weeks could be a fair guess, which gets him ready for next week.

 

[jwlcosu]

If Denard is hurt and can't or shouldn't play, fine. But if he is able, shouldn't he be permitted to start and play the last two B1G games of his career?

 

[rumseyhouse77]

To me the question is what gives Michigan the best chance to win out? Does bringing Denard back in next week, given that he may not be completely healed (see my previous post for my thinking on the sensitivity of the O to who is playing QB). If Michigan loses another game the B1G championship is lost. I would love to have him start all of the rest of the games, have great games, have Michigan win out and win the championship, and have him break the rushing record. I love the guy! He is a real Michigan Man. But part of being a Michigan Man is doing what is best for the team. Remember as Bo said "The Team, The Team, The Team". And if Denard starts, the DG sits and one of Michigan's best weapons is out of the game.

It is a real problem that needs to be addressed or Michigan risks not reaching the championship game, which was one of the goals for this year.

 

[bamf_16]

If Denard is hurt and can't or shouldn't play, fine. But if he is able, shouldn't he be permitted to start and play the last two B1G games of his career?

No, because even though Denard Robinson gives this team the best chance to win, Devin Gardner was a 5 star QB, and Denard was ranked by scouting services as a CB and with Gardner the playbook is wide open instead of being limited with Denard Robinson. Plus, Gardner made throws yesterday that Denard has never made in his entire career. When Gardner rolled out and threw across his body, right into the hands of the defender, it was ok since the play started when he was under center, which is where all true "qb's" line up. When Gardner throws jump balls across his body downfield, it's a great throw because he gave his receiver a chance, whereas when Denard does it, it's just a kick returner throwing up a punt or a jump ball that falls short or gets intercepted. And finally, Gardner is the better runner.

In all seriousness, Gardner played a better game yesterday than I or most expected him to, and I liked that the gameplan wasn't Gardner in the shotgun all game, running zone read and bubble screens and hoping we'd move the ball consistently against an inferior defense and maybe a couple big plays would get us to 30 points. It's good that next August, it isn't Shane or bust. But Denard is still the better all around QB option for this team, and when he's healthy, he starts.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

At its worst, yet still not requiring surgery, it's 6-8 weeks of rest to being symptom free. Now, a better conditioned athlete like this kid, it's going to be less, and he's going to be out on the field before fully healed, as long as he can grip the ball. So 2-3 weeks could be a fair guess, which gets him ready for next week.

This is not a new injury. I think he has been struggling with it for some time. Last year I remember him coming out of games shaking his hand as if it had gone numb. And it wasn't that eating thing he does after scoring a TD. I thought it was caused by the strep infection he was reported to have had on his throwing arm last year. This nerve injury is a chronic thing. He had the whole off-season to recover. Yet it is still a problem, and appears to be easily reaggrevated. Obviously it is not going to be healed in a couple of weeks. It will likely be an issue for the rest of this season. I think he was ready to play this week and will be ready to play next week. But the nerve is going to be a continuing issue. So, given the sensitivity the O has shown to who is playing QB, who should start. DG and the O looked to be reaching a level of comfort yesterday. Given the situation, do you try to build on that next week, or do you bring Denard back in at QB and risk losing the momentum that has been developed? It could be the difference between winning the championship and playing in the Outback bowl. It is a difficult decision and I do not envy Hoke and the coaching staff having to make it.

 

[bamf_16]

This is not a new injury. I think he has been struggling with it for some time. Last year I remember him coming out of games shaking his hand as if it had gone numb. And it wasn't that eating thing he does after scoring a TD. I thought it was caused by the strep infection he was reported to have had on his throwing arm last year. This nerve injury is a chronic thing. He had the whole off-season to recover. Yet it is still a problem, and appears to be easily reaggrevated. Obviously it is not going to be healed in a couple of weeks. It will likely be an issue for the rest of this season. I think he was ready to play this week and will be ready to play next week. But the nerve is going to be a continuing issue. So, given the sensitivity the O has shown to who is playing QB, who should start. DG and the O looked to be reaching a level of comfort yesterday. Given the situation, do you try to build on that next week, or do you bring Denard back in at QB and risk losing the momentum that has been developed? It could be the difference between winning the championship and playing in the Outback bowl. It is a difficult decision and I do not envy Hoke and the coaching staff having to make it.

I agree, that this is one hell of a decision to have to make!

With Denard though, just to maybe put some minds at a little bit of ease, this injury may qualify as being easily reaggravated, but history has not proven it to be enough to consistently sideline him for an extended period, since it is the first time he's missed a game. At least we know now that if he's healthy enough to start again, but then takes another hard hit on it like he did at Nebraska, a Gardner with a successful game under his belt assumes the position, and we don't fear the end of the world!