Gardner looking pretty good

[alonzomoseley_fbi]

No, because even though Denard Robinson gives this team the best chance to win, Devin Gardner was a 5 star QB, and Denard was ranked by scouting services as a CB and with Gardner the playbook is wide open instead of being limited with Denard Robinson. Plus, Gardner made throws yesterday that Denard has never made in his entire career. When Gardner rolled out and threw across his body, right into the hands of the defender, it was ok since the play started when he was under center, which is where all true "qb's" line up. When Gardner throws jump balls across his body downfield, it's a great throw because he gave his receiver a chance, whereas when Denard does it, it's just a kick returner throwing up a punt or a jump ball that falls short or gets intercepted. And finally, Gardner is the better runner.

In all seriousness, Gardner played a better game yesterday than I or most expected him to, and I liked that the gameplan wasn't Gardner in the shotgun all game, running zone read and bubble screens and hoping we'd move the ball consistently against an inferior defense and maybe a couple big plays would get us to 30 points. It's good that next August, it isn't Shane or bust. But Denard is still the better all around QB option for this team, and when he's healthy, he starts.

And the Bamf tantrum continues. To be clear, when I referred to the fact that DG was a 5-star recruit, that wasn't part of my argument that the offense is better with DG at QB. My point was that as a 5-star, we knew he had the talent to perform like he did yesterday.

 

[bamf_16]

Little sensitive there, aren't you? I think you need to read the quoted post again.

It was completely satirical. Read it again, then notice the "In all seriousness" beginning to the next paragraph.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

And the Bamf tantrum continues. To be clear, when I referred to the fact that DG was a 5-star recruit, that wasn't part of my argument that the offense is better with DG at QB. My point was that as a 5-star, we knew he had the talent to perform like he did yesterday.

I hold bamf's opinion in high regard. I may not agree with it completely, but I certainly consider it seriously. We both want what is best for the team and what will take Michigan to the championship. I have not doubt about that whatsoever.

It is one helluva decision! Man, this season is not ending up like I thought it would.

GO BLUE!

 

[allshouldbleedblue]

I hold bamf's opinion in high regard. I may not agree with it completely, but I certainly consider it seriously. We both want what is best for the team and what will take Michigan to the championship. I have not doubt about that whatsoever.

It is one helluva decision! Man, this season is not ending up like I thought it would.

GO BLUE!

i agree with you about bamf. didnt want to get in a giant debate with him but it happened. have enjoyed discussing the games with him over the past few years, especially when we used to have the chat mode.

 

[rumseyhouse77]

i agree with you about bamf. didnt want to get in a giant debate with him but it happened. have enjoyed discussing the games with him over the past few years, especially when we used to have the chat mode.

Yeah, I liked the chat mode during the game too. I think it worked better.

But bamf has only provided an answer to half of the question. If Denard is healthy he would start him at QB. But what do you do with DG? I think Hoke or Borges have said that you can't prepare to play both receiver and backup QB. So, do you prepare him to QB and sit him on the bench? I think it is safe to say that Bellomy is out of the equation at this point. So, if you play Denard and don't prepare DG, then that leaves Kennedy. How confident are you that Kennedy (or Bellomy) could be called upon to come in and win in the event that Denard went down agian and the game was on the line? I am not confident in either of these guys. Do you take the chance if Denard is healthy this Saturday?

I don't. I play DG, and bring in Denard for some plays as a RB, with the instruction to protect his elbow as best he can (no lunging!). Maybe even try some kind of screen or other plays where Denard feigns a run to draw the defensive backs off the recievers and then have him throw the ball down field to whoever opens up. That would be my O game plan for next week.

Tell Coach I am available if he needs me on the sidelines this Saturday against NW. But he'll have to buy my plane ticket. Nothing fancy, Southwest is fine. I have relatives in the area so no need for a hotel room.

 

[hungry]

And the way you "sees 'em" is completely off.

You and most others who watched the game sat down to watch a team that hadn't scored an offensive touchdown in 8 quarters, and went on the road to play what we all considered to be a shitty team (look at the score prediction thread). Because today wasn't a train wreck, we get the privilege of watching people go off the deep end and call for Gardner to be the QB, saying the offense is better with Gardner, and the most ridiculously fucked up opinion, that Gardner is the better runner.

Here's what happened: The offense got back on track today. It was still your typical conservative play call against a team that 10 times out of 10 gets blown out by UM. Gardner managed the game well. His TD pass to Dileo showed something Henne never developed in his 4 years as Michigan's starting QB, the ability to scramble behind the LOS, buy time, keep eyes downfield, and hit the receiver who had 10 seconds to get open. That play was awesome. He also showed good presence when he took shots on the two offsides calls.

But even with all Devin did well today, if next week, both Devin and Denard are healthy, you and you think Devin should start, then, well, you. are. out. of. your. fucking. mind.

If you think UM beats MSU two weeks ago with Gardner at QB instead of Denard, you. are. out. of. your. fucking. mind.

Gardner proved today he's the better option than Bellomy, and he showed us that Morris doesn't have to show up on campus in August feeling like he's the only option this team has. He didn't prove that he's the best QB for UM down the stretch of this season, because he's not.

You're entitled to your opinion, but you shouldn't disrespect other posters the way you're doing it. You should know better.

That being said, I think Devin could've beaten MSU as Michigan's QB. He's 6' 4" and all of those batted balls that Denard had against MSU don't happen. If Devin is playing QB all year, we don't get his crazy first quarter where he was breaking off his rust. Denard is a turnover waiting to happen, doesn't know how to do the read option, doesn't know when to run instead of scramble around and throw prayers, and can't throw the ball accurately over 15 yards. Devin can do all of those things. I think Devin makes better reads with the read option, has a much better deep ball (something that has been missing for the UM offense for 3 years,) and knows when to tuck and run instead of throwing wounded ducks at the opposing team.

The coaches should've had him ready to go last week instead of posing as a crappy receiver. If they had done that, MIchigan probably wins that game and is in prime position to win the big ten title. Now we need a miracle.

 

[bamf_16]

Yeah, I liked the chat mode during the game too. I think it worked better.

But bamf has only provided an answer to half of the question. If Denard is healthy he would start him at QB. But what do you do with DG? I think Hoke or Borges have said that you can't prepare to play both receiver and backup QB. So, do you prepare him to QB and sit him on the bench? I think it is safe to say that Bellomy is out of the equation at this point. So, if you play Denard and don't prepare DG, then that leaves Kennedy. How confident are you that Kennedy (or Bellomy) could be called upon to come in and win in the event that Denard went down agian and the game was on the line? I am not confident in either of these guys. Do you take the chance if Denard is healthy this Saturday?

I don't. I play DG, and bring in Denard for some plays as a RB, with the instruction to protect his elbow as best he can (no lunging!). Maybe even try some kind of screen or other plays where Denard feigns a run to draw the defensive backs off the recievers and then have him throw the ball down field to whoever opens up. That would be my O game plan for next week.

Tell Coach I am available if he needs me on the sidelines this Saturday against NW. But he'll have to buy my plane ticket. Nothing fancy, Southwest is fine. I have relatives in the area so no need for a hotel room.

So you put arguably your best WR in at QB and your best QB on the bench, only coming in for some plays at RB?

Interesting approach.

Denard goes back in when he's healthy, and find a way for Gardner to be ready to start at WR and to be the #2. I find a way to make it happen. Hoke was there when Woodson was playing both CB and WR. The only way it "can't be done" is if you don't find a way.

 

[hungry]

Gardner
Rawls
Funchess
Dileo


Your 2013 M Offense

Yep and I'm feeling good about it

btw, where the hell was Dileo against Nebraska? Was he out there? Or did the coaches decide to put him on the bench after he was the key player against MSU (well, besides Gibbons, of course) I don't remember even seeing him on the field against Nebraska

 

[bamf_16]

Hey Rumsey, please don't type a serious post about Bellomy or Kennedy playing QB in a close game. I damn near lost my dinner! haha

 

[hungry]

Maybe not, but we would have beat ND with Devin as the QB. I wanted Robinson pulled that game and for Devin to come in in the 2nd half. But as we all know, Devin was getting NO snaps during the week. Robinson gave the ball to ND anytime they wanted it and we still almost won.

Good point . Michigan might actually be a 1-loss team right now.

 

[bamf_16]

Yep and I'm feeling good about

btw, where the hell was Dileo against Nebraska. Was he out there? Or did the coaches decide to put him on the bench after he was the key player against MSU (well, besides Gibbons, of course) I don't remember even seeing him on the field against Nebraska

That was brought up a couple times in the gameday thread, even before Denard went down. One of life's great unanswerable questions, I guess.

 

[hungry]

Crazy scramble Hail Mary for the TD finally broke the seal for Gardner. He was a different man from that point on and has always faced a pretty intense situation as Denard's back-up.

I like it - both for next Saturday and 2013. Morris chilling on the sideline would be a good thing, IMO.

Agree totally, except for that, as already stated, I don't think it was a Hail Mary. What I saw was a 60 yard pass to a wide-open receiver that hit him right in the numbers after an exciting scramble.

 

[hungry]

Why do you keep putting the term "qb" in quotation marks? I think it's that you have this mental set of what a QB SHOULD look like that you've got that in your head, and you're using THAT as the barometer. Good one. Just type what you really mean, that Gardner better fits your mental set. There's nothing wrong with that. But call it what it is. I just can't fathom someone rationally and logically looking at every game Denard has played in his UM career and concluding that what Gardner did today was better quarterback play.

All I need to really demonstrate why I think you're out of your goddam mind in your assertion that Devin Gardner threw the ball today against Minnesota better than Denard has in his entire career is to point out that in order for that to be true, you'd have to believe that Devin's passing game today was better than Denard's was against Ohio State last year.

And if you think that...

I don't remember any deep balls against OSU last season. Refresh my memory.

 

[hungry]

Interesting point. What did you see today that gave you the impression that there are more play selection options with Gardner?

Seemed to me that the OC decided to use more of the playbook starting in the 2nd quarter against Mn. This is probably because he has to limit Denard, so Denard doesn't lose the game by throwing INT after INT.

 

[hungry]

gotta let shane fight for the job.
Rawls isnt very good
love funchess
Id hope we'd have better than Dileo by next year

Rawls showed he could get 3 or 4 yards a pop before Toussaint could against Mn. That is all we need. We don't need a home-run threat. We need a straight-forward back that can get 3.5 yards/carry. Mr Stutter step Toussaint hasn't been especially good in that department and Rawls still has some developing to do.

 

[hungry]

It is quarterback play, just not the kind you prefer to see. You keep putting these terms in quotation marks so you can attach your own meaning to them, and make up the rules as you go. As you were typing while thinking, instead of thinking then typing, your meaning became somewhat clearer. You don't like the TYPE of QB Denard is, evident in your statement,

"i do not like spread offenses with running qb's and never have. teams with good/fast defenses will always be able to counter them with a good defensive schemes. teams that can throw the ball and run the ball are far more likely to succeed than teams that cant. i understand you may like the way denard plays the position, but that doesnt mean anyone else has to."

Now I see what's happening; I'm analyzing the play of Denard Robinson and Devin Gardner. You're at the same time having a philosophical debate about spread vs. more prostyle offenses. If you want to have that, that's cool, just don't do it under the guise of a different premise. But sorry, you don't get to make an outlandish statement that Devin Gardner today made throws that Denard hasn't made in his career, or isn't capable of making without offering some sort of defense for it. Shit, between the two of us, I'm the only one who really made a case for a play Gardner made that Denard hasn't, and it was the Fran Tarkenton scramble.

I just don't see why we can't look at today's game, say Devin Gardner played well at times (pretty much 2nd quarter on) and made some plays, and have that be enough. I just don't see why were have to get neverending hard-ons and make absolutely outlandish statements like these, and conclude that someone who won't compete with us for craziest statement of the night isn't giving someone credit.

Out of curiosity....of the other 17 throws Gardner made today, which ones are you most impressed with?

Who are you to say that he wasn't thinking while typing?

I liked the deep balls, you know the ones that went more than 25 yards. He only threw about 3 or 4 of them, but each one was better than Denard has done all season long.

 

[bamf_16]

I don't remember any deep balls against OSU last season. Refresh my memory.

Well, if you define deep ball as 25 yards, the first TD pass from Robinson to Hemingway was a 26 yarder that Denard released from the 30 and was caught in the end zone.

Looking at the box score again, 4 receivers had a long catch of over 20 yards. I'm watching the Steeler game right now, so I'm not going to back and watch it again. But if you try to downplay the game Denard played against OSU, it's clear you've got an agenda, and logic and reason will never be useful against that, so I won't bother. But if you go back just one week, look at the long TD pass to Odoms, there goes the whole "Gardner made throws Denard hasn't made in his career" argument.

Please save us all the misery of having to read a negative revisionist history of Denard's performance against OSU.

 

[bamf_16]

Who are you to say that he wasn't thinking while typing?

I liked the deep balls, you know the ones that went more than 25 yards. He only threw about 3 or 4 of them, but each one was better than Denard has done all season long.

If you read the post again, you can clearly the see the argument bouncing around, changing, evolving, etc. as the post progressed, pretty clearly at that.

 

[hungry]

fitz will be more successful AD Denard. That zone read crap just isnt working out for him....by the time denard hands him the ball the entire defense has flown at him and hes just not very good at breaking tackles. He'll be just fine in a more balanced offense. People arent happy with the like of dileo and gallon cause they dont look like michigan WRs. they look like midgets. Is it too much to ask for a guy that atleast looks like a Marquise Walker?

The guys on the team that look like Marquise Walker can't run routes or catch the football. They need receivers that can catch the football and right now, that's Gallon and Dileo.

 

[allshouldbleedblue]

bamf you still dont get it. we are not saying denard hasn't thrown the ball to a receiver longer than 25 yards. we are saying devin throws the ball better. his passes have touch, are smooth and are not full speed everytime. just because denards passes have got to the receiver in the past does not men they are perfect passes. that pass play against nebraska was a pretty good throw but odoms also made a great catch. the difference with devin is those pass plays dont have to have the receiver make a great catch. it is in their hands where it is suppose to be with touch so it doesnt just ricochette off their hands when the play is difficult to make.