Minicamp notes

[mhughes0021]

Im torn on what I think Stafford will be this season. Part of me thinks this situation is better for Stafford then Schwartz/Linehan and if he progresses mechanically from the change he could put up huge all pro type numbers with the weapons he has aroud him. But is learning a new playbook from a ocord that has never had a playbook or called plays before all while trying to relearn mechanics just asking too much? I know staff is a bright guy....but that's a lot to ask and I doubt hes to the point where hes playing instinctive football by the regular season. I think he has a hard time the first half of the year vs a decently tough schedule. Minicamps are in no way telling of the upcoming season but the one thing you can take away from camp is the offense will be a learning curve and they are starting VERY slowly.

 

[LKP]

Let's just use the full 5 years, since that's the entire picture, no more picking and choosing which stats you want to do:

Stafford- 109 TD/73 INT- 83.1 rating
Brees- 80 TD/53 INT- 86.64 rating
Manning- 138 TD/100 INT- 85.9 rating

How is that a fact again? After the first five years, it was pretty obvious that Manning was going to be a stud. Brees had a change of scenery and blew up. Stafford hasn't trended upward whatsoever. If he didn't have one massive year, his stats would be even more pedestrian than they already are.

61 games. Stafford beat them both. You are hindering Stafford for missing games. Stafford is better than Manning and Brees were at the 61 game mark. He has their potential now with better weapons and actual QB gurus. Manning didn't make the jump until he got Caldwell. Stafford can do the same.

 

[LKP]

Im torn on what I think Stafford will be this season. Part of me thinks this situation is better for Stafford then Schwartz/Linehan and if he progresses mechanically from the change he could put up huge all pro type numbers with the weapons he has aroud him. But is learning a new playbook from a ocord that has never had a playbook or called plays before all while trying to relearn mechanics just asking too much? I know staff is a bright guy....but that's a lot to ask and I doubt hes to the point where hes playing instinctive football by the regular season. I think he has a hard time the first half of the year vs a decently tough schedule. Minicamps are in no way telling of the upcoming season but the one thing you can take away from camp is the offense will be a learning curve and they are starting VERY slowly.

The offense has done well the last 2 weeks. Stafford will get the offense down by September. The best thing about no Linehan/Schwartz, is we will not be as predictable. That is huge for Stafford to reduce turnovers.

 

[dubbsco]

Actually, the season where he only played 3 games was one of his best seasons...

It's neither hindering nor helping him. You have no idea how he would have done had he played the full 16 the first two years.

 

[LKP]

Actually, the season where he only played 3 games was one of his best seasons...

It's neither hindering nor helping him. You have no idea how he would have done had he played the full 16 the first two years.

The 3 games are included in thos 61 games. I am sure he would have more TDs and less ints since Stafford had the best ratio through 61 games.

 

[dubbsco]

I could also go ahead and say that if he played his entire rookie year, his stats would have been even worse.

There's something beyond stats that you don't look at. It's that X factor. When you see a guy, you know he's going to be special. I know Andrew Luck is going to be a star (if he's not already). You knew Manning would be a Hall of Famer even when he was struggling, just by the way he played the game. Stafford doesn't have that. He's had some really cool leadership moments (Cleveland), but other than that, he's just there. 10 years from now when we look back at this Lions era, Matt Stafford won't be a guy we remember strongly. He's good. Borders on very good. But that's about it.

 

[LKP]

I could also go ahead and say that if he played his entire rookie year, his stats would have been even worse.

There's something beyond stats that you don't look at. It's that X factor. When you see a guy, you know he's going to be special. I know Andrew Luck is going to be a star (if he's not already). You knew Manning would be a Hall of Famer even when he was struggling, just by the way he played the game. Stafford doesn't have that. He's had some really cool leadership moments (Cleveland), but other than that, he's just there. 10 years from now when we look back at this Lions era, Matt Stafford won't be a guy we remember strongly. He's good. Borders on very good. But that's about it.

LOL so your gut feeling based on nothing. X factor pfffff

Luck is another overrated QB. AFC South. Joke. Though Luck needs some more support.

http://espn.go.com/nfl/player/stats/_/id/14874/andrew-luck

 

[dubbsco]

And since you go strictly by stats and not other things, Matt Stafford is an average NFL QB through 5 years. His TD/INT ratio is pedestrian, and his QB rating is awful. Not much else to debate there. There's no arguing that. Can't slice it and dice it to make it look better. He's an average NFL QB right now, with the POTENTIAL to be great.

 

[kdp80]

61 games. Stafford beat them both. You are hindering Stafford for missing games. Stafford is better than Manning and Brees were at the 61 game mark. He has their potential now with better weapons and actual QB gurus. Manning didn't make the jump until he got Caldwell. Stafford can do the same.

Staffords stats are misleading though. Alot of garbage time stats, can you say that about Manning/Brees? Manning had 2 losing record seasons in 13 years with Indy!!! Stafford has 1 winning season thru 5 years. Advantage Manning

 

[dubbsco]

Look at what Andrew Luck has done in two years with a very mediocre Indianapolis Colts team. You can see that he's going to be a star. Guy has moxie, moves around in the pocket, and makes smart decisions. That's what I wish Stafford would be.

Oh, and he also led Indy to the 2nd biggest comeback in NFL playoff history. In his 2nd year.

 

[LKP]

Staffords stats are misleading though. Alot of garbage time stats, can you say that about Manning/Brees? Manning had 2 losing record seasons in 13 years with Indy!!! Stafford has 1 winning season thru 5 years. Advantage Manning

It is not garbage time stats. The Lions have been in an insane number of close games the last 3 years. And none in the 3 games in 2010.

Down one score is never garbage time, down 14 or so in the first half or even 3rd Qtr is not garbage time either. Garbage time is known pass for the defense so that hinders some too as they know what's coming making it easier to defend.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/9265/passing_splits.html
He only threw 15 total passes out of 634 last year down 15 or more.

Only 5 of 109 TDs were in garbage time and 2 of them are debatable at Chicago and at San Fran last year with the onside kick. I'm sure I can find 5 for Brees or Manning in thier first 61 too.

I found 4 in Peyton's rookie season alone.

 

[kdp80]

It is not garbage time stats. The Lions have been in an insane number of close games the last 3 years. And none in the 3 games in 2010.

Down one score is never garbage time, down 14 or so in the first half or even 3rd Qtr is not garbage time either. Garbage time is known pass for the defense so that hinders some too as they know what's coming making it easier to defend.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/football/nfl/players/9265/passing_splits.html
He only threw 15 total passes out of 634 last year down 15 or more.

How about 2012? 109 throws when the game is out of reach. The way you look at garbage time confuses me. Imo the defense is not looking to defend anything besides quick scores(prevent d), ie: getting beat deep

 

[LKP]

How about 2012? 109 throws when the game is out of reach. The way you look at garbage time confuses me. Imo the defense is not looking to defend anything besides quick scores.

Only 5 TDS came in garbage time. Out of 109 TDs.
Peyton had 4 garbage time TDs in his rookie year alone.

 

[LKP]

GB 2011
at San Fran 2012 debatable with onside kick
at Chicago 2012 debatable with onside kick
at Minnesota 2012
at GB 2013.
Those are the 5.

 

[kdp80]

Only 5 TDS came in garbage time. Out of 109 TDs.
Peyton had 4 garbage time TDs in his rookie year alone.

In his rookie year. Then went on to have winning seasons how many years with indy? Winning record seasons means less garbage time, correct?? You can look at it how you want LKP, either Stafford has put up big numbers in a losing effort or he's put up big numbers during garbage time during his losing record career. I am a Stafford fan, just as you are, but comparing numbers between winning quarterbacks and losing quarterbacks is just far fetched. A qbs record is the most important stat there is, and Staffords shows he doesn't get it done in crunch time.

 

[LKP]

In his rookie year. Then went on to have winning seasons how many years with indy? Winning record seasons means less garbage time, correct??

Stafford only has 5. Competitve games means less garbage time. Peyton had more garbage time TDs in first 61 then Stafford did.

 

[kdp80]

Stafford only has 5. Competitve games means less garbage time. Peyton had more garbage time TDs in first 61 then Stafford did.

Proof? Peytons winning record says otherwise.

 

[brewer229]

Look at Romos stats though 61 games. Defend how stafford is better than him.

 

[LKP]

Proof? Peytons winning record says otherwise.

There you go. Gives you the score, quarter and before and after.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/M/MannPe00/touchdowns/passing/

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/S/StafMa00/touchdowns/passing/

I really do love always being right.

 

[LKP]

Look at Romos stats though 61 games. Defend how stafford is better than him.

I don't have to when we are talking about Peyton and Brees.