Training Camp MEGA thread

[LKP]

do you know what an over throw is? (you should watching Stafford) That ball was on the money...if anything it was slightly under thrown since the WR had to slow down a bit to catch it. I have no idea why he went to the ground...it looked as if he really didn't need to go to the ground at all.

It was slight and yes momentum carried him too. Not a drop though. Not labeled a drop by anyone and clearly a tough catch.

Like I said, you know damn well that ball isn't caught very much on those type of throws. A play like that probably has the lowest % of getting complete.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Personally I think PFF is complete crap. Like Bleacher Report..

 

[LKP]

Personally I think PFF is complete crap. Like Bleacher Report..

Independent sources watching game tape all day is not crap.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Independent sources watching game tape all day is not crap.

They add their own interpretation. Not that everyone else doesn't do the same but they aren't very good at it..

 

[grandy]

By team doesn't matter for Detroit other than opponents on that particular game day. And I didn't see many by our opponents last year. There were some (RG3 fumble for instance) but not as many as Detroit had. And Detroit still deserved to beat the Redskins by outplaying them. Game by game is all I care about. I don't worry about other teams. I worry about what it takes to get Detroit to 10-11 wins.

Just know flukes don't always continue going forward. There will be some in 2014 but maybe not as many. We'll see.

Turnovers can reduce several ways. Stafford improvement, weapon improvement (separation/sure hands) and a reduction in flukes (tipped balls hit the ground instead of lucky picks, fumbles follow physics and go out of bounds) and better recovery rates by Detroit on both sides of the ball.

I just want to know how frequently it happens around the league and how the Lions match up with other teams...so it doesn't sound like Detroit is the only team that deals with negative "fluke" plays.

Somewhat tell the NFL to keep track of "fluke plays". Then they can use that stat as a tiebreaker for teams that deserve more wins.

 

[Mitchrapp]

I just want to know how frequently it happens around the league and how the Lions match up with other teams...so it doesn't sound like Detroit is the only team that deals with negative "fluke" plays.

Somewhat tell the NFL to keep track of "fluke plays". Then they can use that stat as a tiebreaker for teams that deserve more wins.

Tied for the last wildcard..head to head, in-conference record, fluke plays. You're onto something.

 

[dubbsco]

Grandy, do you think managers in the NHL go back and say, "Well, we missed the playoffs by a few games, but if it wasn't for hitting the post in this game, we'd be there"? Or, if it wasn't for that three pointer that rimmed out in an NBA game, X result would be different?

Of course not. Wins and losses are all that matters. I'm with you. It's just excuse making.

 

[LKP]

They add their own interpretation. Not that everyone else doesn't do the same but they aren't very good at it..

Its cut and dry across the board for every player. Same thing consitutes a drop for every player. That wouldn't be a drop for Calvin or for Aldrick Robinson.

 

[LKP]

I just want to know how frequently it happens around the league and how the Lions match up with other teams...so it doesn't sound like Detroit is the only team that deals with negative "fluke" plays.

Somewhat tell the NFL to keep track of "fluke plays". Then they can use that stat as a tiebreaker for teams that deserve more wins.

It was it is for 2013. Once they happen you can't do anything about it. All I'm saying going forward, there may be less of them. Making life easier for Detroit.

 

[grandy]

I just hate excuses in general. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the wording. If one were to say "if the Lions execute better, cut down on mistakes, and secure the football better... they have the potential for a great season in 2014" I would view that in a positive light. Blaming the refs, the weather, fluke turnovers, assigning blame for turnovers, it just rubs me the wrong way.

 

[LKP]

I just hate excuses in general. I'm sure a lot of it has to do with the wording. If one were to say "if the Lions execute better, cut down on mistakes, and secure the football better... they have the potential for a great season in 2014" I would view that in a positive light. Blaming the refs, the weather, fluke turnovers, assigning blame for turnovers, it just rubs me the wrong way.

Someone is to blame for every turnover. It's not always Stafford. That is a completely different argument than saying all turnovers were flukes. I'm supporting Stafford when I say it was the weapons fault for 7 of the picks but it's still a Lions fault most of the time Sometimes you just have to give up for a great play like the Tuck int . Or a tipped ball, it's not really anything you can do about it. You can do everything right and still turn the ball over in some cases.

Even on flukes there can be someone to blame. Durham should have held onto the ball better. I just can't believe that ball stays in bounds more than 1 time out 10. Which is why its a fluke. Same with Calvin off his hands into a trailing safeties hands. That rarely happens and part was because of his gnarled fingers. Stafford made a great play on that play.

Of course the Lions need to execute better if they make any mistake. To me the good plays they executed outweighed the bad by far. The mistakes were just back breaking even though there were few of them. And based on their mistakes and the then bad luck they had because of thos mistakes (recovered fumbles, picks where the defender did mainly nothing to get the pick, Durham fumble staying in bounds, shanked punt at the worst possible time, two blocked field goals) the Lions had some bad luck too that amplified the mistakes. But too many the Lions still outplayed the opponent. The other team just caught a break they didn't deserve. The opponents didn't beat the Lions, the Lions beat themselves last year. Lions outplayed the opponent but gave away games with gifts.

 

[Mitchrapp]

Then if it's the weapons fault, whatever that means, and the teams fault in general then why do you term it "true" wins. Someone on our team is making the mistake.

 

[dubbsco]

The Lions need to execute better, period. At the end of the day, EVERY team deals with a similar amount of crap. Whether or not the Lions dealt with a few more tipped balls does not mean a darn thing. It's about winning and losing. If the good plays far outweighed the bad, they would be in the playoffs, and winning games in those very playoffs. Teams that go 7-9 don't have more good plays than bad. That is just a fact.

 

[LKP]

Then if it's the weapons fault, whatever that means, and the teams fault in general then why do you term it "true" wins. Someone on our team is making the mistake.

The mistakes are amplified by some bad luck. Recoveries/some safety getting his hands on something he should never had the opportunity. Most cases the Lions outplay the opponents but give gifts.

For instance, Tampa. 5 turnoves and blocked punt. Houston gives up long TD while hurt. Yet we only lose by 3. We are so much better than Tampa. And outplayed but gave them gifts.

And then you have the Houston injury giving up long TDs while playing hurt. They didn't trust Slay(rookie) and Houston tried to tough through it. Any number 1 CB on a bum hamstring or toe will have major issues.

And bad ref calls can cost a team a game. On a game by game basis, it can be a reason you lost. I feel Calvin and Suh don't get enough calls agains them. Lions passing 634 times should get more calls. The NFL is making an emphasis this year to call more jersey balling and contact by DBs. Seattle can't coast anymore.

 

[LKP]

The Lions need to execute better, period. At the end of the day, EVERY team deals with a similar amount of crap. Whether or not the Lions dealt with a few more tipped balls does not mean a darn thing. It's about winning and losing. If the good plays far outweighed the bad, they would be in the playoffs, and winning games in those very playoffs. Teams that go 7-9 don't have more good plays than bad. That is just a fact.

I disagree. On Lions game days, the opponents didn't deal with similar crap. They were on the receiving end of gifts.

7-9 teams that should have 12-13 games do have more good plays than bad. One bad play wiht some bad luck on top can destroy 10 good plays in a row.

The Underwood TD againsta hurt Houston, the fluke Durham fumble staying in bounds and the Calvin pick destroyed all the great plays the Lions made against Tampa Bay. 3 great TD drives, a late 4th Quarter drive by Calvin, all the great stops Detroit defense made despite 5 turnovers and a blocked punt

 

[dubbsco]

And that's why people don't agree with you on here. Saying the other teams were on the receiving ends of gifts is wrong. The Lions aren't some poor sap that just cant catch a break. They weren't good last year.

 

[tomdalton22]

I disagree. On Lions game days, the opponents didn't deal with similar crap. They were on the receiving end of gifts.

7-9 teams that should have 12-13 games do have more good plays than bad. One bad play wiht some bad luck on top can destroy 10 good plays in a row.

like this gift?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/arizona-cardinals/0ap2000000112241/Stafford-throws-2nd-pick-six

 

[dubbsco]

Lol Tom, didn't you see someone slipped and the wind picked up on that throw?

 

[LKP]

like this gift?

http://www.nfl.com/videos/arizona-cardinals/0ap2000000112241/Stafford-throws-2nd-pick-six

That was a great play by Levy with pressure. I didn't say the Leonard Johnson pick 6 was a gift.

And the 2012 game we got beat down. We were missing Burleson, Young, Broyles and Pettigrew and Best. Things change with better weaons. Can't wait until we play Arizona this year.

 

[grandy]

The opponents didn't beat the Lions, the Lions beat themselves last year. Lions outplayed the opponent but gave away games with gifts.

This is all I needed to see, and it's highly accurate.

I know the Lions players don't believe what I'm about to say, but I don't want to see the "aww shucks, we just need to be luckier next time" mentality.

Stafford should be cutting down on interceptions that were his fault, players should cut down on drops, the defense should cut down on miscommunication resulting in blown coverage, and I don't care if it's a blizzard outside, secure the football better....oh and crush teams to the point where bad officiating calls don't matter.

These are things the Lions need to do if they want to contend for a championship. I'm sure you agree.